Reproductive Technologies

[KommieKat]

The other side of the spectrum to abortion, would be in my opinion, reproductive technologies that actively use eugenics in the form of genetic manipulation (maybe too harsh a term) or genetic modification of the human embryo.

Here we have genetic engineering transforming genes directly as opposed to indirectly (as done in the natural way of today) to alter the structure of genes.

If you want blond hair, blue eyed children, no problem
Want mathematical brilliant violin playing five language speaking children, no problem.

Genetic modification is a form of eugenics, without the actual killing of humans.

We can eradicate most all diseases and physical/mental defects.
The legal implications are bound to occur of course with cases of genetic discrimination taking place in the first phase of the process, but later in the years it becomes mandatory and the social norm.

We have a new beautiful, healthy and intelligent specie of humans and seems to be the next evolution for us. Was it intended for us to evolve to the next level in a natural Darwinian level that could take another 100,000 thousand years or does not science play a part in our evolving in say, the next 100?

The implications of this is enormous. With this technology alone, with the disappearance of most deadly diseases, we can prolong our life span another 50 to 100 years!

Who on this board would not want a healthy, beautiful intelligent baby?

[mcsmc]

Who on this board would not want a healthy, beautiful intelligent baby?

You're an idiot if you think that it requires this "technology" of playing god in order to have a healthy, beautiful, intelligent baby. There are PLENTY of babies born that fit those characteristics. Not only that, but you're not just talking about evolution... you're talking about what defines humanity. Part of humanity's definition as a species is the ability to deal with imperfection, not eliminate it.

In short, I think the whole idea is just asking for trouble.

[gigman]

You're an idiot if you think that it requires this "technology" of playing god in order to have a healthy, beautiful, intelligent baby. There are PLENTY of babies born that fit those characteristics. Not only that, but you're not just talking about evolution... you're talking about what defines humanity. Part of humanity's definition as a species is the ability to deal with imperfection, not eliminate it.

In short, I think the whole idea is just asking for trouble.

Great job dude. I couldn't have said it better myself.
I have three health and smart boys and did it the old fashion way. Not with test tubes or needles.
On the other hand, I think Buddha was born from a needle dick. LMAO.

[Josie]

^That about sums up my thoughts.

Great idea, kinda cool, but it would end up going too far. By "great idea", I'm talking about avoiding major issues, not being all nit-picky about stupid stuff.

[CrAnIuM]

The other side of the spectrum to abortion, would be in my opinion, reproductive technologies that actively use eugenics in the form of genetic manipulation (maybe too harsh a term) or genetic modification of the human embryo.

Here we have genetic engineering transforming genes directly as opposed to indirectly (as done in the natural way of today) to alter the structure of genes.
Genetic modification is a form of eugenics, without the actual killing of humans.

I would only want a healthy clone (or ten) from which I could harvest organs for the next 100 years.

[Blood]

I would only want a healthy clone (or ten) from which I could harvest organs for the next 100 years.

Lies! Nobody would want to live that long.

[Shade]

Lies! Nobody would want to live that long.

might be fun.... viagra for the win!!

Buddah here is a simple rule. Fuck with nature, nature wipes your ass out. You try to chop down all the forests, you have problems with the air, you start fucking with imperfections, they will create differnt ones. Note, that there are mental illness's associated with being very smart. That alone balances itself. Law of this world, this race, this universe, is nature at its very core is balance.

[KommieKat]

You're an idiot if..........

And you're a blind idiot if you have not realized that this is no longer Science Fiction but Science fact.

Genetic therapy is already in use now. They are transplanting healthy genes into the eyes of blind people to replace the damaged ones. Blind people are now able to see thanks to this technology.

"Part of humanity's definition as a species is the ability to deal with imperfection, not eliminate it.".............you go and tell that to those people who are not able to benefit from GE in positive ways. Be careful, they may procede to beat the living shit out of you for saying so.

That about sums up my thoughts.

Great movie!

I would only want a healthy clone (or ten) from which I could harvest organs for the next 100 years.

Cruel and cold, but could very well be a soon-to-be reality.

Buddah here is a simple rule. Fuck with nature, nature wipes your ass out. You try to chop down all the forests, you have problems with the air, you start fucking with imperfections, they will create differnt ones. Note, that there are mental illness's associated with being very smart. That alone balances itself. Law of this world, this race, this universe, is nature at its very core is balance.

There's no absolute proof of this.
Cutting down trees is not doing anything to help out so of course you'll get more trouble in the long run. The idea of GE is to clean out the mental illness that you say are associated with everyone.

There is nothing to say that it is not humanity's nature to use it's wisdom and knowledge to create a better life for itself. To NOT use the full potential of human nature would be a crime. I am referring to it's use in a postive manner unlike war and destruction.

[KommieKat]

Great job dude. I couldn't have said it better myself.
I have three health and smart boys and did it the old fashion way. Not with test tubes or needles.
On the other hand, I think Buddha was born from a needle dick. LMAO.

You, Sir Gigman are the prime example why this technology is so desperately needed. Had this existed when you mother decided to shit you out, we would have been spared your mental incapabilities that is screamingly expressed, in every post you make.

I understand and sympathize with your mental sufferings due to the lack of this corrective technology. You pay with many years of suffering for your daddy's momentary tickle of pleasure. Pity you.

Lies! Nobody would want to live that long.

Please speak for yourself, Blood.
I would not mind living a hundred healthy wealthy years.
I like Planet earth.

[Blood]

Please speak for yourself, Blood.
I would not mind living a hundred healthy wealthy years.
I like Planet earth.

Meh, i'm not afraid to die so i have never really understood what could be gained in trying to delay the inevitable.

Death is apart of the life cycle, that is why our bodys wern't built to last that long. One old man dies one day and a baby is born in his place, its the perfect design.

I think perfection is something that can never be reached and in the prosess of trying to achieve it, we will end up causing bigger problems along the way that we might not be able to figure out how to fix in time. The BAM we are all dead because we got greedy and tried to play god.

[Pinkslit]

Yes, abort all the imperfect, unwanted and unsavoury offspring and clone a super beautiful people.
Abortion should be compulsory for all women on a benefit, of colored race, all Asians, junkies and where either the Father or Mother has a criminal history or mental illness.

[KommieKat]

Meh, i'm not afraid to die so i have never really understood what could be gained in trying to delay the inevitable.

Death is apart of the life cycle, that is why our bodys wern't built to last that long. One old man dies one day and a baby is born in his place, its the perfect design.

I think perfection is something that can never be reached and in the prosess of trying to achieve it, we will end up causing bigger problems along the way that we might not be able to figure out how to fix in time. The BAM we are all dead because we got greedy and tried to play god.

That's a very good reply, Kudos.

I don't think perfection in the common sense is possible, but if you could eradicate disease that will affect your unborn child, would you not opt for GE?

I for one would not want to live a miserable life and give a miserable life to child because of some awful disease that would scar brain or body.

Yes, abort all the imperfect, unwanted and unsavoury offspring and clone a super beautiful people.
Abortion should be compulsory for all women on a benefit, of colored race, all Asians, junkies and where either the Father or Mother has a criminal history or mental illness.

Wow. That's way to fucking far. You have issues to deal with, privately.
I never advocated that.

Personally, I'd leave as much as possible to nature but if the child was found after diagnosis to have a mental or physical defect, I would go with GE to correct it.

[KommieKat]

[QUOTE=Pinkslit;7494]uh?

If you need to ask, shame on you.

[Severina]

Want mathematical brilliant violin playing five language speaking children, no problem.

Wrong! Big Problem!

lntelligence and abilities are not akin to transferring the contents of a hard drive to another.

On another level, if everyone chooses what there offspring will become how many will choose a future that involves a job that will be then classed as menial? A farm labourer? a painter and decorator? a truck driver?

What do you do then for all these tasks? Maybe make a less perfect human? Congratulations! you've just brought back slaves!

As for your perfect human, what do you eradicate? Violence? Sexual preference? Jealousy?Smoking? Drinking? etc etc lf you get rid of all the 'imperfections' you are going to be left with the most boring mundane specimens and society ever in existence.

Imperfections? ... you do realise that most things that have been invented or found out have been by people that are deemed to be very intelligent but a great deal of them suffered from mental illnesses and are or were on the borderline of insanity (and a lot have crossed it). Their imperfections gave them the driving force to continue in their field but you could rarely say that they were part of society. So, with your perfect humans you would lose these people ... not looking too good for the new breed is it?

[Shade]

I agree with Severni and Blood. I think we can't achive perfection, even if we found a common defnition. I think our mistakes are what makes us human. Evolution is based off of mistakes. These genetic defects, such as geneticly handed down diseases are the failed expieraments in evolution. Every once in a while it gets it right. The mistake isn't something we could of thought of. We would of had no concept of an opposable thumb. It worked though. That single genetic mutation is why we became the civilizations that we did.

My thinking is if we start cloning our 'perfections' evolution stops. It goes into stasis because we no longer have a way to make mistakes. Either that, or we will find that the 'perfection' is one of evolutions mistakes. I see the ultimate plaque of humanity being us cloneing and by natural consequence, the clones breeding, and erasing the chance for the rest of us fuck ups to produce down syndrom kids, and the occasion evolutionary leap. When that happens, things like new diseases will come into play, and sense we really can't evolve, we are going to die out.

[4nik8]

Wrong! Big Problem!

lntelligence and abilities are not akin to transferring the contents of a hard drive to another.

On another level, if everyone chooses what there offspring will become how many will choose a future that involves a job that will be then classed as menial? A farm labourer? a painter and decorator? a truck driver?

What do you do then for all these tasks? Maybe make a less perfect human? Congratulations! you've just brought back slaves!

As for your perfect human, what do you eradicate? Violence? Sexual preference? Jealousy?Smoking? Drinking? etc etc lf you get rid of all the 'imperfections' you are going to be left with the most boring mundane specimens and society ever in existence.

Imperfections? ... you do realise that most things that have been invented or found out have been by people that are deemed to be very intelligent but a great deal of them suffered from mental illnesses and are or were on the borderline of insanity (and a lot have crossed it). Their imperfections gave them the driving force to continue in their field but you could rarely say that they were part of society. So, with your perfect humans you would lose these people ... not looking too good for the new breed is it?

Excellent post, Sev. You said, clearly, what will happen if things were to actually go this way.
The first thought that came to me as I read your post was how similar it sounded to a book I read about 20 years ago. It's called Brave New World.
It deals with most of the points you raised about what would happen. Since it was written around WWII, there isn't mention of elaborate genetic manipulation but it's there none none the less. More along the lines of creating classes of humans via test tubes.
It's scary to think what would happen if people opted for this thinking only about the positive and not giving any credence to the inevitable down side that would naturally accompany it.

[Shade]

Excellent post, Sev. You laid it clearly what will happen if things were to actually go this way.
The first thought that came to me as I read your post was how similar it sounded to a book I read about 20 years ago. It's called Brave New World.
It deals with most of the points you raised about what would happen. Since it was written around WWII, there isn't mention of elaborate genetic manipulation but it's there none none the less. More along the lines of creating classes of humans via test tubes.
It's scary to think what would happen if people opted for this thinking only about the positive and not giving any credence to the inevitable down side that would naturally accompany it.

Isnt it human nature to see things one sidedly? Either being inanely skeptical or completely ignoring the adverse effects? Not going to point out wars or the atom bomb here...

[4nik8]

Isnt it human nature to see things one sidedly? Either being inanely skeptical or completely ignoring the adverse effects? Not going to point out wars or the atom bomb here...

Without discussions from both sides and given the same amount of weight...yes.
That's why I like the idea of freedom of speech.

[KommieKat]

Wrong! Big Problem!

lntelligence and abilities are not akin to transferring the contents of a hard drive to another.

We are not talking about hard drives, though Futurist have mentioned that as we progress with computers, around 2010, they will be at the ability of the human mind. More on this later.

On another level, if everyone chooses what there offspring will become how many will choose a future that involves a job that will be then classed as menial? A farm labourer? a painter and decorator? a truck driver?

What do you do then for all these tasks? Maybe make a less perfect human? Congratulations! you've just brought back slaves!

You are aware that most everything in this thread is only speculation?

I seriously doubt there will be slavery, unless you support the Rights of Robots, because that is how most labor will be replaced.
It is now happening as we speak in Japan.
Japan is replacing most of it's factory workers with Robots, due to it's declining population of youth and increase in population of the elderly.

More along the lines of creating classes of humans via test tubes.
It's scary to think what would happen if people opted for this thinking only about the positive and not giving any credence to the inevitable down side that would naturally accompany it.

Again, we are only speculating on most of this. I never said I supported all of it, but if my unborn child was found with defects, I would opt for corrections through GE. I do not care to suffer the remainder of my life taking care of a vegetable.

I have no idea if it will be done in Test tubes, or when the child is still inside the mother. It seems that it is only a matter of injections. I really have no idea.

I would hope they would give credence to Pos and Neg on such a moral issue.
Seems only Neg was given to the Atomic bombs.
Maybe a Pos for AB would be underground mining? Petroleum extraction? Massive fishing potentials?? j/k
Again I have no idea.

[Severina]

We are not talking about hard drives, though Futurist have mentioned that as we progress with computers, around 2010, they will be at the ability of the human mind. More on this later.

That's pure science fantasy. We still don't understand how the human brain works so how can we reproduce it's ability? Even basic things like when we see things we generally instinctively know what it is. When a robot 'sees' something it goes through it's complete memory bank rejecting everything that it is not, whatever remains hopefully is correct. At the other end of the spectrum is 'awareness' and robotic scientists are not even on the first page of that!

You are aware that most everything in this thread is only speculation?

I seriously doubt there will be slavery, unless you support the Rights of Robots, because that is how most labor will be replaced.
It is now happening as we speak in Japan.
Japan is replacing most of it's factory workers with Robots, due to it's declining population of youth and increase in population of the elderly.

Automated process in factories bears no resemblance to say a painter and decorator. To repeat the same process again and again is basic. The ability to think is another matter entirely.

[KommieKat]

That's pure science fantasy. We still don't understand how the human brain works so how can we reproduce it's ability? Even basic things like when we see things we generally instinctively know what it is. When a robot 'sees' something it goes through it's complete memory bank rejecting everything that it is not, whatever remains hopefully is correct. At the other end of the spectrum is 'awareness' and robotic scientists are not even on the first page of that!

Automated process in factories bears no resemblance to say a painter and decorator. To repeat the same process again and again is basic. The ability to think is another matter entirely.

I have no idea what the future holds anymore than you do, so yes, it could very well be science fantasy.

I can also give examples of what people thought say, 60 years ago what was "science fantasy" to be reality today. I think you may have ideas about this already.

Here is a link for you to check out if you care to. These are Future predictions, not present realities:

#9: The convergence of genetic engineering, nanotechnology and robotics will allow humans to change their bodies in profoundly new ways. In the next 15 years, people may be able to rearrange their genes to change their physical features, extend their lifespan, merge their brains with computers and their bodies with robots, among many other remarkable developments.

http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=1190.php

[Severina]

I have no idea what the future holds anymore than you do, so yes, it could very well be science fantasy.

I can also give examples of what people thought say, 60 years ago what was \"science fantasy\" to be reality today. I think you may have ideas about this already.

Here is a link for you to check out if you care to. These are Future predictions, not present realities:

#9: The convergence of genetic engineering, nanotechnology and robotics will allow humans to change their bodies in profoundly new ways. In the next 15 years, people may be able to rearrange their genes to change their physical features, extend their lifespan, merge their brains with computers and their bodies with robots, among many other remarkable developments.

http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=1190.php

Thanks for the link but l prefer New Scientist to keep me up to date. lt is very factual and a lot of it l don't fully understand but enjoy it anyway as it always gives both sides of the discussion. These are usually carried on in the forum/blogs but seeing a lot of scientists/professors are also posting it can and does get quite deep ... l then drown! ;-)

http://www.newscientist.com/home.ns