Abortion

[Shade]

What are your views on abortion. As reguards to political framing, the outside influences, and lies and exageration from both sides, and the general issue itself?

[Jenn]

I, personally, believe that abortion is wrong unless the mother was raped, or the baby had a health issue that would cause him/her to suffer.

But if you ask me, I believe that every time a female is born, the doctor should place some sort of birth control chip in her body, and when she wants to finally have a baby, should have a full psychiatric workup, and take parenting classes.

Women popping out babies left and right when they cant afford them, or just going to torture and kill these babies anyway, should be shot in the head point blank.

[CrAnIuM]

What are your views on abortion. As reguards to political framing, the outside influences, and lies and exageration from both sides, and the general issue itself?

I am 100% in support of abortion.

Going further ... I am 100% in support of mandated population control where people are only allowed to procreate by;

1. Meeting stringent economical and education prerequisites.

2. ONLY being allowed to have ONE child and agree to be
irreversibly sterilized with in 12 months of that alloted child's birth.

[Josie]

I don't like abortion, but I don't think it's something that should be disallowed or restricted. If some woman doesn't want to add her kidlet to the already over-populated planet, let her get rid of it in a sanitized, somewhat humane (better than a dumpster) manner.

Heh, and I also tend to agree with Jenn and Prick on the birth control/parenting stuff.

Veering off topic: Some chick and her highschool sweetheart got married and decided to have a baby. They had a boy and the mom "got postpartum depression" and repeatedly beat her infant, who was hospitalized something like 3 times before he was 3 months old.

Then, he was taken away and placed with grandparents for awhile, but given back at 10 months. The mother went psychotic over something or other and beat him (literally) stupid, used cigarettes to burn all over his little body (including his penis), and broke multiple bones. POSTPARTUM DEPRESSION?? Bitch, I know about that shit, and it takes some thought out craziness to OPEN a little boy's diaper, light a cigarette and ruin his genitalia for life.

Last I read, he was in the ICU and probably wasn't going to live. If he did/does, he will be a vegetable or retarded.

WHAT THE FUCK?? ^She^ should have had a mandatory abortion. See how, in that situation, being sucked out a tube is FAR more humane than what it took to slowly kill him later on? If she had been evaluated before her pregnancy and during each stage of her pregnancy, surely some of this would have been a concern, and they could have either made arrangement to remove the child from her (give it to someone else who wanted it) or sign her up for a forced abortion.

** Disclaimer ** I'm in a terrible mood and am very ill today. Hence all the babble.

[Violet]

I'm pro-choice, to a certain extent. Basically, I figure if a mother doesn't think she can handle having the baby, she probably can't.

However, there are types out there that use it as a form of birth-control, and those women should just be fixed. People that stupid don't need to be breeding anyway.

[KommieKat]

However, there are types out there that use it as a form of birth-control, and those women should just be fixed. People that stupid don't need to be breeding anyway.

I see your point as for the present, because there are a few different forms of birth control for women, but centuries and even decades ago, there was not much choice but to abort as a form of contraceptive.

You ladies should consider yourselves fortunate compared to your sista's in the past.

[Jenn]

I'm pro-choice, to a certain extent. Basically, I figure if a mother doesn't think she can handle having the baby, she probably can't.

However, there are types out there that use it as a form of birth-control, and those women should just be fixed. People that stupid don't need to be breeding anyway.

I don't know about any other state, but here in New Jersey, if a parent doesn't want her child, she can hand the baby over to the police dept, hospital, church or fire dept, no questions asked.

I believe that adoption is a much better option than abortion. However, I agree more with abortion in the early stages than when the mother is months along.

[Violet]

I see your point as for the present, because there are a few different forms of birth control for women, but centuries and even decades ago, there was not much choice but to abort as a form of contraceptive.

You ladies should consider yourselves fortunate compared to your sista's in the past.

Oh, sure. I get that. The fact is, though, that NOW there really isn't much excuse. Hell, you can even get condoms for free at most Planned Parenthood places.

I don't know why it bothers me to think of a woman having multiple abortions versus a woman having one. Maybe I figure they should have learned their lesson after the first.

I don't know about any other state, but here in New Jersey, if a parent doesn't want her child, she can hand the baby over to the police dept, hospital, church or fire dept, no questions asked.

I believe that adoption is a much better option than abortion. However, I agree more with abortion in the early stages than when the mother is months along.

I'm not sure of the laws here on that, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're the same.

For one thing, though, I would imagine actually having the baby and handing it over would be a more traumatic thing to deal with than having an abortion. Besides that, someone with no intention of keeping their baby might not take care of themselves as well as if they intended to raise the child. (Not to mention the fact that there are quite a few unclaimed children in the world. My aunt and uncle adopted a little girl from China, where there's an abundance of girls in need of homes.)

I agree, though, that if a woman decides to have an abortion, she ought to have it within the first trimester. The earlier in the fetus' development, the better.

[dunamis]

I, personally, believe that abortion is wrong unless the mother was raped, or the baby had a health issue that would cause him/her to suffer.

Well, I believe that it's wrong to line up two categories and say: Alright, everything in this category is a valid reason to have an abortion, and everything in the other category is not. It's a sensitive subject that needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis.

That said, we've all heard the major points for/against abortion a million times. Making it illegal would only encourage illegal abortions, which can go very badly wrong for the mother. And what would the punishment be for a women who goes ahead with an illegal abortion? Would we throw her in jail?

It really comes down to whether or not it is "moral" to abort, and unfortunately "morality" is often a word used interchangeably with "religious views," which brings up whether or not it is constitutional to ban abortion.

From there, it just keeps going. Do I believe abortions should be legal? Yes. Do I think it's right to use abortion as a form of birth control? No. However, we can't allow a few bad examples to dictate how our laws are formed.

One thing that I absolutely hate are the loaded terms used to describe both sides. Pro-choice? Pro-life? Why not make an environmental group that is for reducing pollution and call them "pro-air?" It's retarded, and I keep hoping that the terms just fall out of use someday.

[Jenn]

Well, I believe that it's wrong to line up two categories and say: Alright, everything in this category is a valid reason to have an abortion, and everything in the other category is not. It's a sensitive subject that needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis.

That said, we've all heard the major points for/against abortion a million times. Making it illegal would only encourage illegal abortions, which can go very badly wrong for the mother. And what would the punishment be for a women who goes ahead with an illegal abortion? Would we throw her in jail?

It really comes down to whether or not it is "moral" to abort, and unfortunately "morality" is often a word used interchangeably with "religious views," which brings up whether or not it is constitutional to ban abortion.

From there, it just keeps going. Do I believe abortions should be legal? Yes. Do I think it's right to use abortion as a form of birth control? No. However, we can't allow a few bad examples to dictate how our laws are formed.

One thing that I absolutely hate are the loaded terms used to describe both sides. Pro-choice? Pro-life? Why not make an environmental group that is for reducing pollution and call them "pro-air?" It's retarded, and I keep hoping that the terms just fall out of use someday.

I just stated how I felt on the matter. It's not so much the early terminations that get to me, it's the ones where the fetus actually starts forming to resemble a baby. It pains me to think about the pain that fetus has for that short period of time. It may not be a proven fact that it is even felt, but studies have shown that the heart rate goes up and the fetus moves around more, which means it feels something. It's murder outside of the womb to do that, it should be murder inside as well.

I understand that some women would start sticking metal hangars inside of their bodies to create their own abortions if abortion was banned, or get hit in the stomaches on purpose. And I also understand that some have no way to raise a child, and as violet put it, cant see their baby, whom they have carried for 40 weeks, go to another family. I know about that bond.. and I know it would would to let go. But why wait so long to have this abortion? Why not do it earlier when its easier to abort? Im not judging either. To each his own. Im going to add that I am MORE against late abortions.

And also, everyone has hard times, and everyone makes mistakes. One "oops" happens, but to keep abusing the option of abortion is fucked up on so many levels. As most put it here, abortions being used as a form of birth control is fucked up and should not be done.

I know a 16 year old who has had three abortions. Her mother keeps taking her to get them done. As a mother myself, it pains me that this parent doesn't drag her daughter to the clinic, or her gyno to get the depo shot, but uses the excuse, "If I do that, she wont practice safe sex by using condoms." That pisses me off.

[Shade]

Well, I believe that it's wrong to line up two categories and say: Alright, everything in this category is a valid reason to have an abortion, and everything in the other category is not. It's a sensitive subject that needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis.

That said, we've all heard the major points for/against abortion a million times. Making it illegal would only encourage illegal abortions, which can go very badly wrong for the mother. And what would the punishment be for a women who goes ahead with an illegal abortion? Would we throw her in jail?

It really comes down to whether or not it is "moral" to abort, and unfortunately "morality" is often a word used interchangeably with "religious views," which brings up whether or not it is constitutional to ban abortion.

From there, it just keeps going. Do I believe abortions should be legal? Yes. Do I think it's right to use abortion as a form of birth control? No. However, we can't allow a few bad examples to dictate how our laws are formed.

One thing that I absolutely hate are the loaded terms used to describe both sides. Pro-choice? Pro-life? Why not make an environmental group that is for reducing pollution and call them "pro-air?" It's retarded, and I keep hoping that the terms just fall out of use someday.

I love your insight, its both remarkably brilliant and insightful.

I always believed there are laws that bind people and laws that set them free. To control a womans body is wrong. To take a fetus's chance at becoming a child is wrong as well. I think its the ultimate situation of the lesser of two evils. Because on a case by case basis some people shouldn't be allowed to, and some should in my eyes. However who's going to make that choice?

This question is about playing god. Who has the right over life. I think we already give parents more or less complete control over their kids life, and the mom did create it. The dad however isn't really viewed in this as much. Mainly because he doesn't really have to do alot of work. But those are the two who created the life, and should ultimately be responsable for destroying it. I still think that there are very few reasons that make sense to actually abort. Adoption is a great alternative as everyone has pointed out. But on the same tolken a 15 yearold girl who was raped shouldn't have to sacrafice her body and life more then she decides to do to that tramatic insadent.

I think the question itself, like dumass said, is extreamly loaded. I dont think there is any real answer. I think as a society we should focus on the prevention instead of the cure so to speak. That getting to that point where you have to make the choice is far to late.

I understand how passionate people are on this topic, however it sickens me that so many, are socieity as a whole, resorts to manipulation. Both sides. In the clinics they often are for fetis killing, and in the media in general they are for women slavery. The fact that you go on youtube and look up pro choice or pro life, you'll find like 1 pro choice video and 500 pro life vdeio's half of them are labeled pro choice. If you take a look at the facts, all the facts are fudged to. You'll get a video of doctors who where abortionists talk about it, yet they are all christian and dont do there job anymore, then you'll see horid video's of the worst procudure on how to abort a baby besides the coat hanger method, and on the other side you'll see pictures of women being enslaved and shackled and specific attention to how painless everything is and how humain it is. You'll have doctors that do it tell beautiful storys how she was able to return to school and shit. Or how the other side is manipulating us. All the time no one wants to actually share the real truth which is no one has a fucking clue if its better or worse, because it's completely individualized. One woman may keep her baby and live a great life, and another may keep her baby and be miserable. And same with not keeping it.

I think in the end this is like the right to own a hand gun. Any idiot can have one. Most don't truely understand the consequences. You'll always have a bunch of idiots who abuse the right and shoot things and people, and you'll have the ones who act responsably. But in the end you'll have the silent majority who has no fucking clue, and will try to make the best choice if they have to. We don't take away hand guns because some asshole can shoot himself in the foot, thats his choice, but then again we make everyone wear seat belts fot the alternate reason. Still, i dont think its right to control anyones body, because it has the same qualitys as rape.

[Shade]

I just stated how I felt on the matter. It's not so much the early terminations that get to me, it's the ones where the fetus actually starts forming to resemble a baby. It pains me to think about the pain that fetus has for that short period of time. It may not be a proven fact that it is even felt, but studies have shown that the heart rate goes up and the fetus moves around more, which means it feels something. It's murder outside of the womb to do that, it should be murder inside as well.

I understand that some women would start sticking metal hangars inside of their bodies to create their own abortions if abortion was banned, or get hit in the stomaches on purpose. And I also understand that some have no way to raise a child, and as violet put it, cant see their baby, whom they have carried for 40 weeks, go to another family. I know about that bond.. and I know it would would to let go. But why wait so long to have this abortion? Why not do it earlier when its easier to abort? Im not judging either. To each his own. Im going to add that I am MORE against late abortions.

And also, everyone has hard times, and everyone makes mistakes. One "oops" happens, but to keep abusing the option of abortion is fucked up on so many levels. As most put it here, abortions being used as a form of birth control is fucked up and should not be done.

I know a 16 year old who has had three abortions. Her mother keeps taking her to get them done. As a mother myself, it pains me that this parent doesn't drag her daughter to the clinic, or her gyno to get the depo shot, but uses the excuse, "If I do that, she wont practice safe sex by using condoms." That pisses me off.

I think you bring up an excelent point though. I do think this issue ends up being on the parents. It's what they will teach their kids. Our society has changed so much in the last 50-60 years. Sex ed is not even CLOSE to caught up with the permiscuity now a days. I waited forever to lose my virginity. And most people would laugh at that. But it was the way i was taught. Which wasn't church related, just that it wasn't smart to fuck everything that moves. The older i get the age of people losing their virginity goes down. I'm thinking when i'm 50 i'm going to hear kids are banging other kids at age 3-4. And yet when the kids are able to reproduce, it's getting to late to even have the talks. To the point where as parents it will turn into us having to accept sexuality into our society and teach kids when they are born. Because lets face it, the 1940's morals of the church where you dont talk about it or teach kids it's evil and wrong at age 18 just aint doing it no more. Case and point, there arn't many groups more well known for being total sluts then catholic school girls.

[KommieKat]

.......... it's the ones where the fetus actually starts forming to resemble a baby.

That's the moral question. At what point do you abort and not abort.

Would you consider a Zygote to be a baby?
Granted, it has the end process of becoming a baby but at that stage, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue.

Should one be emotionally attached to a clump of tissue that is nothing less than the vistigial remains of our earlier evolutionary process.

Off topic trivia:
I heard it said that if a baby were to continue to grow as it does in the womb and some 2 or 3 years after birth, it could reach the size and mass of the Statue of Liberty.

[mcsmc]

A lot of forms of birth control actually abort a conceived baby instead of preventing the conception in the first place. UIDs, for example. They allow the sperm and egg to combine, but modify the uterus to include a foreign object, thus preventing the fetus from attaching itself to the womb to be nourished, etc.

Everyone seems to argue about when it's too late to abort, rather than if it's okay. Everyone talks about reasons for abortion such as the pregnancy endangering the mother's health, rape, and other things relating to the mother. Yet many of the same people say there's nothing more important than their children. The fact is, if you abort a baby to save the mother, does that mean the child isn't the most important thing anymore? Is the ultimate sacrifice for a child only willingly given after it is born? With the medical technology we have these days, there's not a whole lot of cases where carrying out a pregnancy endangers a mother anyway. As far as rape goes, most stranger rapes occur because women dress slutty and go places they shouldn't. However, most rapists are known to their victims before the crime occurs. I think it's obvious that if a woman/girl can't trust someone to be alone with them (and gut feelings don't lie most of the time), then don't be alone with them.

People want to kill the baby/fetus to fix a "problem" that baby/fetus didn't cause. It's justified because they can't see the baby, so it's less real to them. The fact is, when conception takes place, life is created. Abortion extinguishes that life, no matter how intelligent it isn't yet. So what one of you said (I forgot, and not scrolling up) is correct... abortion is about playing god, and making the ultimate decision over life and death based on your own personal feelings.

Facts:

• Day 1 - conception takes place.
• 7 days - tiny human implants in mother’s uterus.
• 10 days - mother’s menses stop.
• 18 days - heart begins to beat.
• 21 days - pumps own blood through separate closed circulatory system with own blood type.
• 28 days - eye, ear and respiratory system begin to form.
• 42 days - brain waves recorded, skeleton complete, reflexes present.
• 7 weeks - photo of thumbsucking.
• 8 weeks - all body systems present.
• 9 weeks - squints, swallows, moves tongue, makes fist.
• 11 weeks - spontaneous breathing movements, has fingernails, all body systems working.
• 12 weeks - weighs one ounce.
• 16 weeks - genital organs clearly differentiated, grasps with hands, swims, kicks, turns, somersaults, (still not felt by the mother.)
• 18 weeks - vocal cords work – can cry.
• 20 weeks - has hair on head, weighs one pound, 12 inches long.
• 23 weeks - 15% chance of viability outside of womb if birth premature.*
• 24 weeks - 56% of babies survive premature birth.*
• 25 weeks - 79% of babies survive premature birth.*

So at 18 days the heart is beating... that's medically the only thing that determines that people are alive in a lot of cases. Of course, those are people that are out of the womb... so it's different, right?

I agree with adoption. There are plenty of people out there that are more than happy to take care of kids. As to the 40 weeks of bonding that occurs, that's simply a small sacrifice you can make since children should be important to us.

I just think it's sad that people abort, because in my eyes it's taking an innocent life. I also think it's fucked up that someone will freely support abortion, but also go on about saving some rare animal species from extinction. We as a society have royally screwed up our priorities.

Mind you, I'm not religious, so this isn't based on the Bible, Quran, etc. My views are simply based on the respect for human life that should still be ingrained into our natures (it obviously isn't anymore).

[Josie]

Is the ultimate sacrifice for a child only willingly given after it is born?

Out of sight, out of mind?

With the medical technology we have these days, there's not a whole lot of cases where carrying out a pregnancy endangers a mother anyway.

Oh wow. This is completely assumed. Look up pre-eclampsia, just as an example.

As far as rape goes, most stranger rapes occur because women dress slutty and go places they shouldn't.

I'm not sure I believe this. Do you have any support for that? If you do, I'd like to read it. I'm currently starting on a book called Men on Rape. The person who lent it to me summed up the book to say that women ask for and deserve rape, however, that just doesn't seem like it fits to me.

People want to kill the baby/fetus to fix a "problem" that baby/fetus didn't cause. It's justified because they can't see the baby, so it's less real to them.

Nevermind that there are too many humans anyways. Also, babies born prematurely or women who die during childbirth, etc no longer make up a significant part of our deaths. There isn't much we don't do to keep someone alive. That makes us different from the other animals on this planet. We continue to keep having babies and find ways to keep those that would have died alive. This poses a population problem.

The fact is, when conception takes place, life is created. Abortion extinguishes that life, no matter how intelligent it isn't yet. So what one of you said (I forgot, and not scrolling up) is correct... abortion is about playing god, and making the ultimate decision over life and death based on your own personal feelings.

We already "play god" by keeping alive our "loved ones" when they really should be rotting somewhere. All medical decisions we make are about personal feelings. How is this any different?

Facts:

• 23 weeks - 15% chance of viability outside of womb if birth premature.*
• 24 weeks - 56% of babies survive premature birth.*
• 25 weeks - 79% of babies survive premature birth.*

And this is not alarming to you? a fetus that is just over halfway baked is going to live? Yes, that stands for great medical leaps and bounds, but when do we take some responsibility for our actions and see the issues we are perpetuating? Maybe a small part of that solution is as grim as sucking a tiny human being out a straw into a meat grinder?

I agree with adoption. There are plenty of people out there that are more than happy to take care of kids. As to the 40 weeks of bonding that occurs, that's simply a small sacrifice you can make since children should be important to us.

Agreed, adoption is great, but the birthmother is given two days to change her mind and often does. Not because she can afford the kid or anything great and wonderful, it's often because she comes from a single-minded, lowlife family who pressures her to keep it and give it a terrible life. Yay!

As for the cases that don't go sour, it's a dream come true for some people to finally have a baby of their own, but it's still adding more people to the world. That, and what about the kids who aren't fresh out the womb and need a home? They just stay in state custody until they're 18, then they're off! More problem kids. Eek!

If there weren't as many cute squishies just out the oven, those looking to adopt would have to accept that they would be receiving an older child and we'd have less parentless kids to pay for.

I just think it's sad that people abort, because in my eyes it's taking an innocent life. I also think it's fucked up that someone will freely support abortion, but also go on about saving some rare animal species from extinction. We as a society have royally screwed up our priorities.

Wow, you really just tried to compare that didn't you? Am I completely unaware of our going extinct suddenly? Are we losing numbers dramatically and something needs to be done about it?

As for priorities... *raises eyebrow* We should be satisfied with our constant multiplication, which directly or indirectly pushes out another species? We shouldn't be doing anything to help fix what we're ruining?
_________

I'd love to say more and make this a more coherent argument, but I, ironically, have a child to tend to and it's really really late.

Good night, all :)

[mcsmc]

Out of sight, out of mind?

Yeah, pretty convenient. Guilt's easy to push away.

Oh wow. This is completely assumed. Look up pre-eclampsia, just as an example.

Forgive me. I meant, it's hardly a problem compared to, say, even 20 years ago.

I'm not sure I believe this. Do you have any support for that? If you do, I'd like to read it. I'm currently starting on a book called Men on Rape. The person who lent it to me summed up the book to say that women ask for and deserve rape, however, that just doesn't seem like it fits to me.

Contrary to popular belief, stranger rapes aren't usually planned. It's a crime of opportunity. I never said women ask for it, because that's not the case. However, stranger rape victims often do put themselves in a situation which had they not been in, they wouldn't have gotten raped. And no, I won't be bothered to find support on this right now. I studied books (not interweb pages) on it years ago, including sex crime psychology.

Nevermind that there are too many humans anyways. Also, babies born prematurely or women who die during childbirth, etc no longer make up a significant part of our deaths. There isn't much we don't do to keep someone alive. That makes us different from the other animals on this planet. We continue to keep having babies and find ways to keep those that would have died alive. This poses a population problem.

Population problem? First of all, abortion is hardly the best option for population control. Abortion is not only a voluntary procedure, but it's also obviously a morally problematic issue. I think "overpopulation" views and population control are entirely different subjects. However, if you want to bring that up, I'll bring this up. I could find better material for you to read on the subject, but don't have the time right now.

We already "play god" by keeping alive our "loved ones" when they really should be rotting somewhere. All medical decisions we make are about personal feelings. How is this any different?

Again, that seems another subject. However, I don't agree with keeping vegetables hooked up to breathing machines for lengthy periods, either.

And this is not alarming to you? a fetus that is just over halfway baked is going to live? Yes, that stands for great medical leaps and bounds, but when do we take some responsibility for our actions and see the issues we are perpetuating? Maybe a small part of that solution is as grim as sucking a tiny human being out a straw into a meat grinder?

No, it's not alarming to me that we're finding better ways to enable life.

Agreed, adoption is great, but the birthmother is given two days to change her mind and often does. Not because she can afford the kid or anything great and wonderful, it's often because she comes from a single-minded, lowlife family who pressures her to keep it and give it a terrible life. Yay!

As for the cases that don't go sour, it's a dream come true for some people to finally have a baby of their own, but it's still adding more people to the world. That, and what about the kids who aren't fresh out the womb and need a home? They just stay in state custody until they're 18, then they're off! More problem kids. Eek!

If there weren't as many cute squishies just out the oven, those looking to adopt would have to accept that they would be receiving an older child and we'd have less parentless kids to pay for.

It's the mother's child, so if she decides to keep it, then good for her. If the child has a shitty upbringing, you think that's worse than being put to death? Life is full of pain... so mandating the "easy way out" for someone that can't make the choice themselves is justified? I don't agree with that.

And there are plenty of people that take in older children as well.

Wow, you really just tried to compare that didn't you? Am I completely unaware of our going extinct suddenly? Are we losing numbers dramatically and something needs to be done about it?

Yeah, I just compared that, because the fact isn't extinction. Let me add another point... all of the sea life that we spend millions to clean up from our oil spills and etc. Why not just let them die? They're not becoming extinct. I just think that our purpose shouldn't be to stop life, but promote it.

As for priorities... *raises eyebrow* We should be satisfied with our constant multiplication, which directly or indirectly pushes out another species? We shouldn't be doing anything to help fix what we're ruining?

Ever heard of Darwinism?

I'd love to say more and make this a more coherent argument, but I, ironically, have a child to tend to and it's really really late.

Good night, all :)

Yeah... that is ironic. ;)

[Josie]

I never said women ask for it, because that's not the case. However, stranger rape victims often do put themselves in a situation which had they not been in, they wouldn't have gotten raped.

I wasn't trying to put those words in your mouth. The topic brought to mind the book and that the general idea (or so it seemed to my friend) was that you are correct in that it is a crime of opportunity.

Population problem? First of all, abortion is hardly the best option for population control.

True, however, why TRY to keep upping the number of babies born and surviving being born when there is really no need?

However, if you want to bring that up, I'll bring this up. I could find better material for you to read on the subject, but don't have the time right now.

Meh, I started to read it... too much fluff for my brain at the moment. I'll read it later.

No, it's not alarming to me that we're finding better ways to enable life.

Where there is already plennnnty of it. I had a "preterm" labor scare that turned out to be something odd that is completely harmless. However, upon being admitted for possible delivery, I made peace with the idea that my baby might have been born that day and I would not see him grow up. I also was upset by the idea that even being born at 23 weeks, he would be given a miserable existence until his original due date and then released to me full of health issues.

I, honestly, would much rather have him and watch him die in my arms.

This^ is what women ought to prepare themselves for. NOT, "They're doctors, they can make him live. I have hope *teary moment* "

No. For whatever reason (maybe even stupidity on the pregnant mother's part. Yes, that would have included me), that baby and that mother's body were not fit to naturally coincide for 40 weeks.

The topic of preemies is very very touchy. I understand that. So, if there is anyone here who is currently a parent (or is close to someone who is) of a child born prematurely and was saved by modern medicine, please do not take this personally. I'm not above understanding that most everything is not as cut and dry as a couple replies in an abortion thread. However, this is my general opinion... even if it's not something you agree with or that "works for you."

It's the mother's child, so if she decides to keep it, then good for her. If the child has a shitty upbringing, you think that's worse than being put to death? Life is full of pain... so mandating the "easy way out" for someone that can't make the choice themselves is justified? I don't agree with that.

And allowing someone obviously unfit to be a parent to CHOOSE to do so is more justified because....

And there are plenty of people that take in older children as well.

*scoff* Not enough. That's like saying, "Well, hey, SOME of the crap we throw away is biodegradable, so let's just not worry about the rest of it."

Yeah, I just compared that, because the fact isn't extinction. Let me add another point... all of the sea life that we spend millions to clean up from our oil spills and etc. Why not just let them die? They're not becoming extinct. I just think that our purpose shouldn't be to stop life, but promote it.

Too black and white. We can simultaneously promote life and allow for it to be "stopped" as well.

EDIT: Okay, I lied. The kidlet's back to bed and I can't sleep, so here I am, once again! *bats lashes*

[Jenn]

That's the moral question. At what point do you abort and not abort.

Would you consider a Zygote to be a baby?
Granted, it has the end process of becoming a baby but at that stage, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue.

Should one be emotionally attached to a clump of tissue that is nothing less than the vistigial remains of our earlier evolutionary process.

I was atttached the moment I found out and that was at five weeks. It may not be a baby, but it was something that was going to grow to be the one thing that I love the most in the world. Of course, thats just how I feel and everyone has different views on the matter.

[KommieKat]

[INDENT] [INDENT] [INDENT]
[LIST]
[*]7 days - tiny human implants in mother’s uterus.

You make it sound like Right wing Bible belting fanatic propaganda.

There is NO tiny human nor anything that resembles a tiny human in 7 days.
It has potential to become human but at 7 days, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue clinging to the side of the uterus.

Next thing you're going to tell us that the embryo gives out a silent scream as it's being aborted. Give me a break.

[Jenn]

You make it sound like Right wing Bible belting fanatic propaganda.

There is NO tiny human nor anything that resembles a tiny human in 7 days.
It has potential to become human but at 7 days, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue clinging to the side of the uterus.

Next thing you're going to tell us that the embryo gives out a silent scream as it's being aborted. Give me a break.

When I was six weeks pregnant, I staretd to bleed and they called it a "threatened abortion." It was the first time I seen my tiny lil dot..lol.. they said it was called the "yolk sac" May not look like a baby, but it was my baby.

[Polar Bear]

7 days.

When I was six weeks pregnant.....

Fail.

[mcsmc]

You make it sound like Right wing Bible belting fanatic propaganda.

There is NO tiny human nor anything that resembles a tiny human in 7 days.
It has potential to become human but at 7 days, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue clinging to the side of the uterus.

Next thing you're going to tell us that the embryo gives out a silent scream as it's being aborted. Give me a break.

Wow, pick on wording from a c/p I used in my post to make points. Good work there, Corky.

[mcsmc]

Let's put it this way. If someone has an abortion, that's their issue, not mine. I won't judge someone (in real life anyway... I'd probably judge them on a forum because they're dumb enough to put the information out).

However, if I was in a position of political power, I would keep the current views I have and act accordingly.

[Josie]

Let's put it this way. If someone has an abortion, that's their issue, not mine. I won't judge someone (in real life anyway... I'd probably judge them on a forum because they're dumb enough to put the information out).

However, if I was in a position of political power, I would keep the current views I have and act accordingly.

I'm not sure if you took any of my posts wrong (which I don't think you did, but still)... if you did, I was really just wanting to debate the two sides of the argument with you.

I loverly you

[Celtic Crusher]

Abortion is murder. Pure and simple. Give whatever reasons you want, it won't change that fact. Even masturbation is murder.

But having said that, if my twelve year old (fictional) daughter was raped and impregnated I would hold her hand the whole way through the abortion if that's the road she chose to go down.

On the other hand, if a woman chooses to murder an unborn human at any stage due to her stupidity, that woman should then be sterilized.

Pregnant women should be forced to prove themselves worthy of caring for a child and if they fail, they should be forced to hand their child over to the authorities so that the child can be given to a loving couple who will care for the child properly.