Arthritis

[Mamba]

My daughter has had a swollen knuckle on her index finger for a while now. At first I thought she'd just banged it, so we put some ice on it and waited for it to go down, over the past couple of weeks. However, it didn't go down at all. Today it got even more swollen, and spread to the pinky finger and her thumb. Thinking it was a blood clot, or some crazy kind of disease which causes the fingers to be malformed and swollen, we hightailed it to the emergency ward at our local health centre.

The nurse there diagnosed her with Rheumatoid Arthritis. She's only 10.

I had never before heard of children getting Arthritis, but apparently it's super common.

What Causes JIA? (Juvenile Idiopathic Arthritis)

It's not known exactly what causes JIA in kids. Research indicates that it is an autoimmune disease. In autoimmune diseases, white blood cells can't tell the difference between the body's own healthy cells and germs like bacteria and viruses. The immune system, which is supposed to protect the body from these harmful invaders, instead releases chemicals that can damage healthy tissues and cause inflammation and pain.

To effectively manage and minimize the effects of arthritis, an early and accurate diagnosis is essential. By understanding the symptoms and characteristics of each type of JIA, you can help your child maintain an active, productive lifestyle.

http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/arthritis/jra.html

Types of JIA

JIA usually appears in kids between 6 months and 16 years old. The first signs often are joint pain or swelling and reddened or warm joints. Many rheumatologists (doctors specializing in joint disorders) find that the greater the number of joints affected, the more severe the disease and the less likely that the symptoms will eventually go into total remission.

Checking out the symptoms online, I think it's the 3rd one down, as she has all the symptoms, except fever...:

Polyarticular arthritis, rheumatoid factor negative.

Affects more girls than boys. Symptoms include swelling or pain in five or more joints. The small joints of the hands are affected as well as the weight-bearing joints like the knees, hips, ankles, feet, and neck.

A low-grade fever also might develop, as well as bumps or nodules in areas of the body subjected to pressure from sitting or leaning.

- but will be going to the main hospital tomorrow to get a thorough diagnosis.

I don't have Arthritis neither does anyone in my family that I'm aware of. Just damn :(

[Bunnee]

I didn't know you had a daughter.....

And wow, that really sucks. let us know how it all goes eh? Poor kiddo. :(

[Negativecool]

Uh oh...

[Grim_Legion]

when i have a high intake of citrus my finger joints swell and are painful, same symptoms as arthritis, but after stopping the high intake, it takes 3 to 4 weeks before my joints are back to normal.

Is it possible in your daughters case the cause is diet ?

[Mamba]

when i have a high intake of citrus my finger joints swell and are painful, same symptoms as arthritis, but after stopping the high intake, it takes 3 to 4 weeks before my joints are back to normal.

Is it possible in your daughters case the cause is diet ?

That is very interesting.

Yes, well.... all day at the hospital and x-rays (nothing found - so appears bones are okay) and blood test. Going back on Monday to see a specialist - because they "can't fit me in right now" and in the meantime, my little one is in a lot of pain (okay, so they gave us ibroprofen, but that's all) but nothing to relieve what the cause is... Her skin has actually split on the index finger it's swollen so much.

I asked for cortisone shot - and they said, oh no - she has to see a Rheumatoid specialist first.

Sooooo basically, what she was trying to say was the country is in crisis and it costs 100 euros a go - we can't afford to give you that.

Riiiiiiight, that's what I thought.

Fucking useless!!

[Bunnee]

Jesus Christ! :( How fucking useless was that then?!

You couldn't possibly go to your GP and ask if your daughter could get something stronger than ibroprofen? GP's tend to be a little more sympathetic than hospital staff, especially when it comes to the kids.

[Mamba]

Jesus Christ! :( How fucking useless was that then?!

You couldn't possibly go to your GP and ask if your daughter could get something stronger than ibroprofen? GP's tend to be a little more sympathetic than hospital staff, especially when it comes to the kids.

Yeah, just that an appointment with GP is in two weeks.... can't get earlier-- hence trip to emergency ward and major hospital to get seen quicker....

If not, that's private healthcare - and can't afford that right now.

[Bunnee]

Wow 2 weeks! For a GP!! You can't go another?

[Mamba]

Wow 2 weeks! For a GP!! You can't go another?

Spanish system = Suck.

[Bunnee]

:( It does sound like The Suck :(

I'm sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with it all.

[KommieKat]

If not, that's private healthcare

Go to your local China town and seek out a Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioner.

[Firestorm]

Go to your local China town and seek out a Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioner.

Never thought I'd say it, but I agree with Kommie. There is a lot that western medicine doesn't know and seeking out an alternative might be the right thing here.

Either way, I hope things work out. It's hard to see your little one hurting and not be able to fix it.

[KommieKat]

Never thought I'd say it, but I agree with Kommie.

Can you cut it out with the fucking insults already? I'm know for a fact it's not the first time you have agreed with me nor do I think you lost any fucking nasal hair agreeing with me on this. For fucks sake, man.

On topic:
You're in Spain which means you've got strong Moroccan, Moorish and Arabian influences therefore, check out your Arab communities of alternative
cures and remedies. Just because the Roman Empire crashed, doesn't mean the rest of the world did. They (Arab/Persian/Chinese/Indian countries) were thriving in medicine, science, literature and art.

Good luck.

[Dirty Hippie]

I dunno... I have mixed feelings about Chinese medicine. I believe there is a lot of real use in some herbs which can rival Western medicine, but there's also a lot of whacky shit that's based on superstition that is decimating populations of animals and driving them to extinction. I mean ground up tiger testicles and powdered rhino horns? Really?

[Zeabot]

a lot that western medicine doesn't know
That's true of all medicine. While natural remedies may appear to be great for the body, they can actually be extremely harmful. Traditional medicines are considered successful if symptoms are cured. Sometimes, reducing symptoms is harmful for the body, as symptoms are ways of your body relieving the disease.

In this case, I cannot see how seeking voodoo doctors won't hurt, though. And even in cases where it can be harmful, sometimes relieving symptoms and dying peacefully is better than not.

[Dirty Hippie]

In this case, I cannot see how seeking voodoo doctors won't hurt, though. And even in cases where it can be harmful, sometimes relieving symptoms and dying peacefully is better than not.

It's a lost cause, let's just let this 10 year old die peacefully... of arthritis. :yociexp44:

[Josie]

Shiiiiitty. !! :(

Check out Lyme, alternative medicines, autoimmune issues, strange allergic reactions (especially since you're waiting ten years - feels like at least - to see a doctor about it)

I imagine, with enough digging, you can find at least one thing to help it come down some and be less painful for her.

[Mamba]

In this case, I cannot see how seeking voodoo doctors won't hurt, though. And even in cases where it can be harmful, sometimes relieving symptoms and dying peacefully is better than not.


It's a lost cause, let's just let this 10 year old die peacefully... of arthritis. :yociexp44:

Hahahaha-... this is what I thought when I read that. Hahaha. Yeah, mortality rate is pretty high with them inflamed knuckles. *giggles*


Shiiiiitty. !! :(

Check out Lyme, alternative medicines, autoimmune issues, strange allergic reactions (especially since you're waiting ten years - feels like at least - to see a doctor about it)

I imagine, with enough digging, you can find at least one thing to help it come down some and be less painful for her.

Thanks Josie. I thought/hoped you would have some useful suggestions, as I know that you have been through a lot with your own kids. :) (that was a solidarity smile...)

[Zeabot]

mortality rate is pretty high with them inflamed knuckles. *giggles*
I didn't necessarily mean in this case :-\

[Mamba]

I didn't necessarily mean in this case :-\

Of course- I'm only yanking your chain. - It's all good.

Update: Went to see the "specialist" today- who first of all, didn't even see me in a proper room..... that might sound weird. But usually, you go in and sit down and the doctor is behind a desk, with a computer and stuff - right? Well, this doctor led me to an empty room with no furniture whatsover, and proceeded to give me the low down on what he "perceived" to be wrong with my child. To start off, I was so shocked/weirded out by the fact that the room had no furniture and he didn't seem particularly bothered that I was just completely walled up from the moment he started speaking.
Now, he said... there are some types of this illness which don't show up in blood, and therefore "we're pretty sure" she's got "this particular one" and that means that she has to start a course of immune depressant drugs - which could last up to a year or two. I said, what? That doesn't make sense- how can you start her on any treatment if you're not sure what it is????

I said I wanted the print out of the blood test, which he wasn't even going to give me(!) and then I checked out some of the results on the blood test (on zee internet later) - which he didn't even mention, like her antibodies being double what they should be! Normal levels are up to 200 and she had 482!!!! And he didn't even mention this... just said her blood test was normal. Fuck me, if that's normal I should get a doctor's degree because they seem pretty easy to come by.

Urghhhhh. long story short - I said I wanted, no - demanded a second opinion. So I've been referred to another hospital.

[Mamba]

I was speaking to one of my colleagues who studied biochemistry for 8 years and she said it's probably NOT arthritis, but rather a strep bacteria (The group A streptococcus bacterium) of which left untreated/unchecked can cause "Rheumatic Fever" of which symptoms are inflamation which moves from joint to joint and is cured with penicilin. I will see the next specialist and ask them to check for this.

Oh yeah, should add that the specific antibodies that showed up in her blood test, in Spanish "Antiestreptolisina" are the ones which specifically target the streptococcus baterium. This streptococcus baterium releases an enzyme called estreptolisina O which can destroy the red blood cells, and the body reacts by producing large quantities of this specific antibody.

Really interesting actually!! The human body is fucking smart.

[CrAnIuM]

I will see the next specialist and ask them to check for this.

You should also inquire at your kid's schools if they are getting reports of other kids having out of the ordinary illnesses, or an increase in NORMAL illnesses.

[Mamba]

You should also inquire at your kid's schools if they are getting reports of other kids having out of the ordinary illnesses, or an increase in NORMAL illnesses.

That's a good idea - I will thanks.

[CrAnIuM]

That's a good idea - I will thanks.



Yup,



Just doin' my job, Ma'am.

[Dirty Hippie]

Or an increase in NORML membership. Although I guess in Spain it would probably be called something else.

[Firestorm]

That's a good idea - I will thanks.

One other thought, when all this blood work was done, was a test done for MRSA? Active MRSA in a joint can cause the same symptoms. Got to be rough on the little one. I don't envy you dealing with it.

[Mamba]

Or an increase in NORML membership. Although I guess in Spain it would probably be called something else.

Normal membership? I don't understand.


One other thought, when all this blood work was done, was a test done for MRSA? Active MRSA in a joint can cause the same symptoms. Got to be rough on the little one. I don't envy you dealing with it.

Thanks, will look into this. Seeing the new specialist on Thursday. Here's hoping she knows wtf she is doing.

[CrAnIuM]

Normal membership? I don't understand.

NORML

[Dirty Hippie]

Yeah, I just had to be a smartass because he capitalized NORMAL and it's so close to NORML. Well that and I'm a dirty hippie pothead.

[Mamba]

Normal membership? I don't understand.



Thanks, will look into this. Seeing the new specialist on Thursday. Here's hoping she knows wtf she is doing.

Ugggggggggh. The specialist was almost even more dismissive than the previous one. *head slap smiley that I cant be effed to look for*

I hate all doctors in Spanish healthcare system. I'm going private. Fed up.

[Mamba]

NORML

That webpage is awesome!

[Mamba]

Update:

Decided not to go back to specialist. Fuck them all- she had a prescription for cortacoide pills, so she took a course of those - and now its gone, no pain, no swelling.

Not starting my baby on immune depressant drugs that are used for cancer patients, no thanks.