Shade
04-07-2008, 03:04 PM
What are your views on abortion. As reguards to political framing, the outside influences, and lies and exageration from both sides, and the general issue itself?
View Full Version : Abortion
Jenn
04-07-2008, 03:21 PM
I, personally, believe that abortion is wrong unless the mother was raped, or the baby had a health issue that would cause him/her to suffer.
But if you ask me, I believe that every time a female is born, the doctor should place some sort of birth control chip in her body, and when she wants to finally have a baby, should have a full psychiatric workup, and take parenting classes.
Women popping out babies left and right when they cant afford them, or just going to torture and kill these babies anyway, should be shot in the head point blank.
But if you ask me, I believe that every time a female is born, the doctor should place some sort of birth control chip in her body, and when she wants to finally have a baby, should have a full psychiatric workup, and take parenting classes.
Women popping out babies left and right when they cant afford them, or just going to torture and kill these babies anyway, should be shot in the head point blank.
CrAnIuM
04-07-2008, 03:46 PM
What are your views on abortion. As reguards to political framing, the outside influences, and lies and exageration from both sides, and the general issue itself?
I am 100% in support of abortion.
Going further ... I am 100% in support of mandated population control where people are only allowed to procreate by;
1. Meeting stringent economical and education prerequisites.
2. ONLY being allowed to have ONE child and agree to be
irreversibly sterilized with in 12 months of that alloted child's birth.
I am 100% in support of abortion.
Going further ... I am 100% in support of mandated population control where people are only allowed to procreate by;
1. Meeting stringent economical and education prerequisites.
2. ONLY being allowed to have ONE child and agree to be
irreversibly sterilized with in 12 months of that alloted child's birth.
Josie
04-07-2008, 05:30 PM
I don't like abortion, but I don't think it's something that should be disallowed or restricted. If some woman doesn't want to add her kidlet to the already over-populated planet, let her get rid of it in a sanitized, somewhat humane (better than a dumpster) manner.
Heh, and I also tend to agree with Jenn and Prick on the birth control/parenting stuff.
Veering off topic: Some chick and her highschool sweetheart got married and decided to have a baby. They had a boy and the mom "got postpartum depression" and repeatedly beat her infant, who was hospitalized something like 3 times before he was 3 months old.
Then, he was taken away and placed with grandparents for awhile, but given back at 10 months. The mother went psychotic over something or other and beat him (literally) stupid, used cigarettes to burn all over his little body (including his penis), and broke multiple bones. POSTPARTUM DEPRESSION?? Bitch, I know about that shit, and it takes some thought out craziness to OPEN a little boy's diaper, light a cigarette and ruin his genitalia for life.
Last I read, he was in the ICU and probably wasn't going to live. If he did/does, he will be a vegetable or retarded.
WHAT THE FUCK?? ^She^ should have had a mandatory abortion. See how, in that situation, being sucked out a tube is FAR more humane than what it took to slowly kill him later on? If she had been evaluated before her pregnancy and during each stage of her pregnancy, surely some of this would have been a concern, and they could have either made arrangement to remove the child from her (give it to someone else who wanted it) or sign her up for a forced abortion.
** Disclaimer ** I'm in a terrible mood and am very ill today. Hence all the babble.
Heh, and I also tend to agree with Jenn and Prick on the birth control/parenting stuff.
Veering off topic: Some chick and her highschool sweetheart got married and decided to have a baby. They had a boy and the mom "got postpartum depression" and repeatedly beat her infant, who was hospitalized something like 3 times before he was 3 months old.
Then, he was taken away and placed with grandparents for awhile, but given back at 10 months. The mother went psychotic over something or other and beat him (literally) stupid, used cigarettes to burn all over his little body (including his penis), and broke multiple bones. POSTPARTUM DEPRESSION?? Bitch, I know about that shit, and it takes some thought out craziness to OPEN a little boy's diaper, light a cigarette and ruin his genitalia for life.
Last I read, he was in the ICU and probably wasn't going to live. If he did/does, he will be a vegetable or retarded.
WHAT THE FUCK?? ^She^ should have had a mandatory abortion. See how, in that situation, being sucked out a tube is FAR more humane than what it took to slowly kill him later on? If she had been evaluated before her pregnancy and during each stage of her pregnancy, surely some of this would have been a concern, and they could have either made arrangement to remove the child from her (give it to someone else who wanted it) or sign her up for a forced abortion.
** Disclaimer ** I'm in a terrible mood and am very ill today. Hence all the babble.
Violet
04-07-2008, 06:17 PM
I'm pro-choice, to a certain extent. Basically, I figure if a mother doesn't think she can handle having the baby, she probably can't.
However, there are types out there that use it as a form of birth-control, and those women should just be fixed. People that stupid don't need to be breeding anyway.
However, there are types out there that use it as a form of birth-control, and those women should just be fixed. People that stupid don't need to be breeding anyway.
KommieKat
04-07-2008, 07:41 PM
However, there are types out there that use it as a form of birth-control, and those women should just be fixed. People that stupid don't need to be breeding anyway.
I see your point as for the present, because there are a few different forms of birth control for women, but centuries and even decades ago, there was not much choice but to abort as a form of contraceptive.
You ladies should consider yourselves fortunate compared to your sista's in the past.
I see your point as for the present, because there are a few different forms of birth control for women, but centuries and even decades ago, there was not much choice but to abort as a form of contraceptive.
You ladies should consider yourselves fortunate compared to your sista's in the past.
Jenn
04-07-2008, 07:52 PM
I'm pro-choice, to a certain extent. Basically, I figure if a mother doesn't think she can handle having the baby, she probably can't.
However, there are types out there that use it as a form of birth-control, and those women should just be fixed. People that stupid don't need to be breeding anyway.
I don't know about any other state, but here in New Jersey, if a parent doesn't want her child, she can hand the baby over to the police dept, hospital, church or fire dept, no questions asked.
I believe that adoption is a much better option than abortion. However, I agree more with abortion in the early stages than when the mother is months along.
However, there are types out there that use it as a form of birth-control, and those women should just be fixed. People that stupid don't need to be breeding anyway.
I don't know about any other state, but here in New Jersey, if a parent doesn't want her child, she can hand the baby over to the police dept, hospital, church or fire dept, no questions asked.
I believe that adoption is a much better option than abortion. However, I agree more with abortion in the early stages than when the mother is months along.
Violet
04-07-2008, 08:12 PM
I see your point as for the present, because there are a few different forms of birth control for women, but centuries and even decades ago, there was not much choice but to abort as a form of contraceptive.
You ladies should consider yourselves fortunate compared to your sista's in the past.Oh, sure. I get that. The fact is, though, that NOW there really isn't much excuse. Hell, you can even get condoms for free at most Planned Parenthood places.
I don't know why it bothers me to think of a woman having multiple abortions versus a woman having one. Maybe I figure they should have learned their lesson after the first.
I don't know about any other state, but here in New Jersey, if a parent doesn't want her child, she can hand the baby over to the police dept, hospital, church or fire dept, no questions asked.
I believe that adoption is a much better option than abortion. However, I agree more with abortion in the early stages than when the mother is months along.I'm not sure of the laws here on that, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're the same.
For one thing, though, I would imagine actually having the baby and handing it over would be a more traumatic thing to deal with than having an abortion. Besides that, someone with no intention of keeping their baby might not take care of themselves as well as if they intended to raise the child. (Not to mention the fact that there are quite a few unclaimed children in the world. My aunt and uncle adopted a little girl from China, where there's an abundance of girls in need of homes.)
I agree, though, that if a woman decides to have an abortion, she ought to have it within the first trimester. The earlier in the fetus' development, the better.
You ladies should consider yourselves fortunate compared to your sista's in the past.Oh, sure. I get that. The fact is, though, that NOW there really isn't much excuse. Hell, you can even get condoms for free at most Planned Parenthood places.
I don't know why it bothers me to think of a woman having multiple abortions versus a woman having one. Maybe I figure they should have learned their lesson after the first.
I don't know about any other state, but here in New Jersey, if a parent doesn't want her child, she can hand the baby over to the police dept, hospital, church or fire dept, no questions asked.
I believe that adoption is a much better option than abortion. However, I agree more with abortion in the early stages than when the mother is months along.I'm not sure of the laws here on that, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're the same.
For one thing, though, I would imagine actually having the baby and handing it over would be a more traumatic thing to deal with than having an abortion. Besides that, someone with no intention of keeping their baby might not take care of themselves as well as if they intended to raise the child. (Not to mention the fact that there are quite a few unclaimed children in the world. My aunt and uncle adopted a little girl from China, where there's an abundance of girls in need of homes.)
I agree, though, that if a woman decides to have an abortion, she ought to have it within the first trimester. The earlier in the fetus' development, the better.
dunamis
04-07-2008, 10:27 PM
I, personally, believe that abortion is wrong unless the mother was raped, or the baby had a health issue that would cause him/her to suffer.
Well, I believe that it's wrong to line up two categories and say: Alright, everything in this category is a valid reason to have an abortion, and everything in the other category is not. It's a sensitive subject that needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis.
That said, we've all heard the major points for/against abortion a million times. Making it illegal would only encourage illegal abortions, which can go very badly wrong for the mother. And what would the punishment be for a women who goes ahead with an illegal abortion? Would we throw her in jail?
It really comes down to whether or not it is "moral" to abort, and unfortunately "morality" is often a word used interchangeably with "religious views," which brings up whether or not it is constitutional to ban abortion.
From there, it just keeps going. Do I believe abortions should be legal? Yes. Do I think it's right to use abortion as a form of birth control? No. However, we can't allow a few bad examples to dictate how our laws are formed.
One thing that I absolutely hate are the loaded terms used to describe both sides. Pro-choice? Pro-life? Why not make an environmental group that is for reducing pollution and call them "pro-air?" It's retarded, and I keep hoping that the terms just fall out of use someday.
Well, I believe that it's wrong to line up two categories and say: Alright, everything in this category is a valid reason to have an abortion, and everything in the other category is not. It's a sensitive subject that needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis.
That said, we've all heard the major points for/against abortion a million times. Making it illegal would only encourage illegal abortions, which can go very badly wrong for the mother. And what would the punishment be for a women who goes ahead with an illegal abortion? Would we throw her in jail?
It really comes down to whether or not it is "moral" to abort, and unfortunately "morality" is often a word used interchangeably with "religious views," which brings up whether or not it is constitutional to ban abortion.
From there, it just keeps going. Do I believe abortions should be legal? Yes. Do I think it's right to use abortion as a form of birth control? No. However, we can't allow a few bad examples to dictate how our laws are formed.
One thing that I absolutely hate are the loaded terms used to describe both sides. Pro-choice? Pro-life? Why not make an environmental group that is for reducing pollution and call them "pro-air?" It's retarded, and I keep hoping that the terms just fall out of use someday.
Jenn
04-07-2008, 11:16 PM
Well, I believe that it's wrong to line up two categories and say: Alright, everything in this category is a valid reason to have an abortion, and everything in the other category is not. It's a sensitive subject that needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis.
That said, we've all heard the major points for/against abortion a million times. Making it illegal would only encourage illegal abortions, which can go very badly wrong for the mother. And what would the punishment be for a women who goes ahead with an illegal abortion? Would we throw her in jail?
It really comes down to whether or not it is "moral" to abort, and unfortunately "morality" is often a word used interchangeably with "religious views," which brings up whether or not it is constitutional to ban abortion.
From there, it just keeps going. Do I believe abortions should be legal? Yes. Do I think it's right to use abortion as a form of birth control? No. However, we can't allow a few bad examples to dictate how our laws are formed.
One thing that I absolutely hate are the loaded terms used to describe both sides. Pro-choice? Pro-life? Why not make an environmental group that is for reducing pollution and call them "pro-air?" It's retarded, and I keep hoping that the terms just fall out of use someday.
I just stated how I felt on the matter. It's not so much the early terminations that get to me, it's the ones where the fetus actually starts forming to resemble a baby. It pains me to think about the pain that fetus has for that short period of time. It may not be a proven fact that it is even felt, but studies have shown that the heart rate goes up and the fetus moves around more, which means it feels something. It's murder outside of the womb to do that, it should be murder inside as well.
I understand that some women would start sticking metal hangars inside of their bodies to create their own abortions if abortion was banned, or get hit in the stomaches on purpose. And I also understand that some have no way to raise a child, and as violet put it, cant see their baby, whom they have carried for 40 weeks, go to another family. I know about that bond.. and I know it would would to let go. But why wait so long to have this abortion? Why not do it earlier when its easier to abort? Im not judging either. To each his own. Im going to add that I am MORE against late abortions.
And also, everyone has hard times, and everyone makes mistakes. One "oops" happens, but to keep abusing the option of abortion is fucked up on so many levels. As most put it here, abortions being used as a form of birth control is fucked up and should not be done.
I know a 16 year old who has had three abortions. Her mother keeps taking her to get them done. As a mother myself, it pains me that this parent doesn't drag her daughter to the clinic, or her gyno to get the depo shot, but uses the excuse, "If I do that, she wont practice safe sex by using condoms." That pisses me off.
That said, we've all heard the major points for/against abortion a million times. Making it illegal would only encourage illegal abortions, which can go very badly wrong for the mother. And what would the punishment be for a women who goes ahead with an illegal abortion? Would we throw her in jail?
It really comes down to whether or not it is "moral" to abort, and unfortunately "morality" is often a word used interchangeably with "religious views," which brings up whether or not it is constitutional to ban abortion.
From there, it just keeps going. Do I believe abortions should be legal? Yes. Do I think it's right to use abortion as a form of birth control? No. However, we can't allow a few bad examples to dictate how our laws are formed.
One thing that I absolutely hate are the loaded terms used to describe both sides. Pro-choice? Pro-life? Why not make an environmental group that is for reducing pollution and call them "pro-air?" It's retarded, and I keep hoping that the terms just fall out of use someday.
I just stated how I felt on the matter. It's not so much the early terminations that get to me, it's the ones where the fetus actually starts forming to resemble a baby. It pains me to think about the pain that fetus has for that short period of time. It may not be a proven fact that it is even felt, but studies have shown that the heart rate goes up and the fetus moves around more, which means it feels something. It's murder outside of the womb to do that, it should be murder inside as well.
I understand that some women would start sticking metal hangars inside of their bodies to create their own abortions if abortion was banned, or get hit in the stomaches on purpose. And I also understand that some have no way to raise a child, and as violet put it, cant see their baby, whom they have carried for 40 weeks, go to another family. I know about that bond.. and I know it would would to let go. But why wait so long to have this abortion? Why not do it earlier when its easier to abort? Im not judging either. To each his own. Im going to add that I am MORE against late abortions.
And also, everyone has hard times, and everyone makes mistakes. One "oops" happens, but to keep abusing the option of abortion is fucked up on so many levels. As most put it here, abortions being used as a form of birth control is fucked up and should not be done.
I know a 16 year old who has had three abortions. Her mother keeps taking her to get them done. As a mother myself, it pains me that this parent doesn't drag her daughter to the clinic, or her gyno to get the depo shot, but uses the excuse, "If I do that, she wont practice safe sex by using condoms." That pisses me off.
Shade
04-07-2008, 11:19 PM
Well, I believe that it's wrong to line up two categories and say: Alright, everything in this category is a valid reason to have an abortion, and everything in the other category is not. It's a sensitive subject that needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis.
That said, we've all heard the major points for/against abortion a million times. Making it illegal would only encourage illegal abortions, which can go very badly wrong for the mother. And what would the punishment be for a women who goes ahead with an illegal abortion? Would we throw her in jail?
It really comes down to whether or not it is "moral" to abort, and unfortunately "morality" is often a word used interchangeably with "religious views," which brings up whether or not it is constitutional to ban abortion.
From there, it just keeps going. Do I believe abortions should be legal? Yes. Do I think it's right to use abortion as a form of birth control? No. However, we can't allow a few bad examples to dictate how our laws are formed.
One thing that I absolutely hate are the loaded terms used to describe both sides. Pro-choice? Pro-life? Why not make an environmental group that is for reducing pollution and call them "pro-air?" It's retarded, and I keep hoping that the terms just fall out of use someday.
I love your insight, its both remarkably brilliant and insightful.
I always believed there are laws that bind people and laws that set them free. To control a womans body is wrong. To take a fetus's chance at becoming a child is wrong as well. I think its the ultimate situation of the lesser of two evils. Because on a case by case basis some people shouldn't be allowed to, and some should in my eyes. However who's going to make that choice?
This question is about playing god. Who has the right over life. I think we already give parents more or less complete control over their kids life, and the mom did create it. The dad however isn't really viewed in this as much. Mainly because he doesn't really have to do alot of work. But those are the two who created the life, and should ultimately be responsable for destroying it. I still think that there are very few reasons that make sense to actually abort. Adoption is a great alternative as everyone has pointed out. But on the same tolken a 15 yearold girl who was raped shouldn't have to sacrafice her body and life more then she decides to do to that tramatic insadent.
I think the question itself, like dumass said, is extreamly loaded. I dont think there is any real answer. I think as a society we should focus on the prevention instead of the cure so to speak. That getting to that point where you have to make the choice is far to late.
I understand how passionate people are on this topic, however it sickens me that so many, are socieity as a whole, resorts to manipulation. Both sides. In the clinics they often are for fetis killing, and in the media in general they are for women slavery. The fact that you go on youtube and look up pro choice or pro life, you'll find like 1 pro choice video and 500 pro life vdeio's half of them are labeled pro choice. If you take a look at the facts, all the facts are fudged to. You'll get a video of doctors who where abortionists talk about it, yet they are all christian and dont do there job anymore, then you'll see horid video's of the worst procudure on how to abort a baby besides the coat hanger method, and on the other side you'll see pictures of women being enslaved and shackled and specific attention to how painless everything is and how humain it is. You'll have doctors that do it tell beautiful storys how she was able to return to school and shit. Or how the other side is manipulating us. All the time no one wants to actually share the real truth which is no one has a fucking clue if its better or worse, because it's completely individualized. One woman may keep her baby and live a great life, and another may keep her baby and be miserable. And same with not keeping it.
I think in the end this is like the right to own a hand gun. Any idiot can have one. Most don't truely understand the consequences. You'll always have a bunch of idiots who abuse the right and shoot things and people, and you'll have the ones who act responsably. But in the end you'll have the silent majority who has no fucking clue, and will try to make the best choice if they have to. We don't take away hand guns because some asshole can shoot himself in the foot, thats his choice, but then again we make everyone wear seat belts fot the alternate reason. Still, i dont think its right to control anyones body, because it has the same qualitys as rape.
That said, we've all heard the major points for/against abortion a million times. Making it illegal would only encourage illegal abortions, which can go very badly wrong for the mother. And what would the punishment be for a women who goes ahead with an illegal abortion? Would we throw her in jail?
It really comes down to whether or not it is "moral" to abort, and unfortunately "morality" is often a word used interchangeably with "religious views," which brings up whether or not it is constitutional to ban abortion.
From there, it just keeps going. Do I believe abortions should be legal? Yes. Do I think it's right to use abortion as a form of birth control? No. However, we can't allow a few bad examples to dictate how our laws are formed.
One thing that I absolutely hate are the loaded terms used to describe both sides. Pro-choice? Pro-life? Why not make an environmental group that is for reducing pollution and call them "pro-air?" It's retarded, and I keep hoping that the terms just fall out of use someday.
I love your insight, its both remarkably brilliant and insightful.
I always believed there are laws that bind people and laws that set them free. To control a womans body is wrong. To take a fetus's chance at becoming a child is wrong as well. I think its the ultimate situation of the lesser of two evils. Because on a case by case basis some people shouldn't be allowed to, and some should in my eyes. However who's going to make that choice?
This question is about playing god. Who has the right over life. I think we already give parents more or less complete control over their kids life, and the mom did create it. The dad however isn't really viewed in this as much. Mainly because he doesn't really have to do alot of work. But those are the two who created the life, and should ultimately be responsable for destroying it. I still think that there are very few reasons that make sense to actually abort. Adoption is a great alternative as everyone has pointed out. But on the same tolken a 15 yearold girl who was raped shouldn't have to sacrafice her body and life more then she decides to do to that tramatic insadent.
I think the question itself, like dumass said, is extreamly loaded. I dont think there is any real answer. I think as a society we should focus on the prevention instead of the cure so to speak. That getting to that point where you have to make the choice is far to late.
I understand how passionate people are on this topic, however it sickens me that so many, are socieity as a whole, resorts to manipulation. Both sides. In the clinics they often are for fetis killing, and in the media in general they are for women slavery. The fact that you go on youtube and look up pro choice or pro life, you'll find like 1 pro choice video and 500 pro life vdeio's half of them are labeled pro choice. If you take a look at the facts, all the facts are fudged to. You'll get a video of doctors who where abortionists talk about it, yet they are all christian and dont do there job anymore, then you'll see horid video's of the worst procudure on how to abort a baby besides the coat hanger method, and on the other side you'll see pictures of women being enslaved and shackled and specific attention to how painless everything is and how humain it is. You'll have doctors that do it tell beautiful storys how she was able to return to school and shit. Or how the other side is manipulating us. All the time no one wants to actually share the real truth which is no one has a fucking clue if its better or worse, because it's completely individualized. One woman may keep her baby and live a great life, and another may keep her baby and be miserable. And same with not keeping it.
I think in the end this is like the right to own a hand gun. Any idiot can have one. Most don't truely understand the consequences. You'll always have a bunch of idiots who abuse the right and shoot things and people, and you'll have the ones who act responsably. But in the end you'll have the silent majority who has no fucking clue, and will try to make the best choice if they have to. We don't take away hand guns because some asshole can shoot himself in the foot, thats his choice, but then again we make everyone wear seat belts fot the alternate reason. Still, i dont think its right to control anyones body, because it has the same qualitys as rape.
Shade
04-07-2008, 11:29 PM
I just stated how I felt on the matter. It's not so much the early terminations that get to me, it's the ones where the fetus actually starts forming to resemble a baby. It pains me to think about the pain that fetus has for that short period of time. It may not be a proven fact that it is even felt, but studies have shown that the heart rate goes up and the fetus moves around more, which means it feels something. It's murder outside of the womb to do that, it should be murder inside as well.
I understand that some women would start sticking metal hangars inside of their bodies to create their own abortions if abortion was banned, or get hit in the stomaches on purpose. And I also understand that some have no way to raise a child, and as violet put it, cant see their baby, whom they have carried for 40 weeks, go to another family. I know about that bond.. and I know it would would to let go. But why wait so long to have this abortion? Why not do it earlier when its easier to abort? Im not judging either. To each his own. Im going to add that I am MORE against late abortions.
And also, everyone has hard times, and everyone makes mistakes. One "oops" happens, but to keep abusing the option of abortion is fucked up on so many levels. As most put it here, abortions being used as a form of birth control is fucked up and should not be done.
I know a 16 year old who has had three abortions. Her mother keeps taking her to get them done. As a mother myself, it pains me that this parent doesn't drag her daughter to the clinic, or her gyno to get the depo shot, but uses the excuse, "If I do that, she wont practice safe sex by using condoms." That pisses me off.
I think you bring up an excelent point though. I do think this issue ends up being on the parents. It's what they will teach their kids. Our society has changed so much in the last 50-60 years. Sex ed is not even CLOSE to caught up with the permiscuity now a days. I waited forever to lose my virginity. And most people would laugh at that. But it was the way i was taught. Which wasn't church related, just that it wasn't smart to fuck everything that moves. The older i get the age of people losing their virginity goes down. I'm thinking when i'm 50 i'm going to hear kids are banging other kids at age 3-4. And yet when the kids are able to reproduce, it's getting to late to even have the talks. To the point where as parents it will turn into us having to accept sexuality into our society and teach kids when they are born. Because lets face it, the 1940's morals of the church where you dont talk about it or teach kids it's evil and wrong at age 18 just aint doing it no more. Case and point, there arn't many groups more well known for being total sluts then catholic school girls.
I understand that some women would start sticking metal hangars inside of their bodies to create their own abortions if abortion was banned, or get hit in the stomaches on purpose. And I also understand that some have no way to raise a child, and as violet put it, cant see their baby, whom they have carried for 40 weeks, go to another family. I know about that bond.. and I know it would would to let go. But why wait so long to have this abortion? Why not do it earlier when its easier to abort? Im not judging either. To each his own. Im going to add that I am MORE against late abortions.
And also, everyone has hard times, and everyone makes mistakes. One "oops" happens, but to keep abusing the option of abortion is fucked up on so many levels. As most put it here, abortions being used as a form of birth control is fucked up and should not be done.
I know a 16 year old who has had three abortions. Her mother keeps taking her to get them done. As a mother myself, it pains me that this parent doesn't drag her daughter to the clinic, or her gyno to get the depo shot, but uses the excuse, "If I do that, she wont practice safe sex by using condoms." That pisses me off.
I think you bring up an excelent point though. I do think this issue ends up being on the parents. It's what they will teach their kids. Our society has changed so much in the last 50-60 years. Sex ed is not even CLOSE to caught up with the permiscuity now a days. I waited forever to lose my virginity. And most people would laugh at that. But it was the way i was taught. Which wasn't church related, just that it wasn't smart to fuck everything that moves. The older i get the age of people losing their virginity goes down. I'm thinking when i'm 50 i'm going to hear kids are banging other kids at age 3-4. And yet when the kids are able to reproduce, it's getting to late to even have the talks. To the point where as parents it will turn into us having to accept sexuality into our society and teach kids when they are born. Because lets face it, the 1940's morals of the church where you dont talk about it or teach kids it's evil and wrong at age 18 just aint doing it no more. Case and point, there arn't many groups more well known for being total sluts then catholic school girls.
KommieKat
04-08-2008, 01:25 AM
.......... it's the ones where the fetus actually starts forming to resemble a baby.
That's the moral question. At what point do you abort and not abort.
Would you consider a Zygote to be a baby?
Granted, it has the end process of becoming a baby but at that stage, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue.
Should one be emotionally attached to a clump of tissue that is nothing less than the vistigial remains of our earlier evolutionary process.
Off topic trivia:
I heard it said that if a baby were to continue to grow as it does in the womb and some 2 or 3 years after birth, it could reach the size and mass of the Statue of Liberty.
That's the moral question. At what point do you abort and not abort.
Would you consider a Zygote to be a baby?
Granted, it has the end process of becoming a baby but at that stage, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue.
Should one be emotionally attached to a clump of tissue that is nothing less than the vistigial remains of our earlier evolutionary process.
Off topic trivia:
I heard it said that if a baby were to continue to grow as it does in the womb and some 2 or 3 years after birth, it could reach the size and mass of the Statue of Liberty.
mcsmc
04-08-2008, 03:38 AM
A lot of forms of birth control actually abort a conceived baby instead of preventing the conception in the first place. UIDs, for example. They allow the sperm and egg to combine, but modify the uterus to include a foreign object, thus preventing the fetus from attaching itself to the womb to be nourished, etc.
Everyone seems to argue about when it's too late to abort, rather than if it's okay. Everyone talks about reasons for abortion such as the pregnancy endangering the mother's health, rape, and other things relating to the mother. Yet many of the same people say there's nothing more important than their children. The fact is, if you abort a baby to save the mother, does that mean the child isn't the most important thing anymore? Is the ultimate sacrifice for a child only willingly given after it is born? With the medical technology we have these days, there's not a whole lot of cases where carrying out a pregnancy endangers a mother anyway. As far as rape goes, most stranger rapes occur because women dress slutty and go places they shouldn't. However, most rapists are known to their victims before the crime occurs. I think it's obvious that if a woman/girl can't trust someone to be alone with them (and gut feelings don't lie most of the time), then don't be alone with them.
People want to kill the baby/fetus to fix a "problem" that baby/fetus didn't cause. It's justified because they can't see the baby, so it's less real to them. The fact is, when conception takes place, life is created. Abortion extinguishes that life, no matter how intelligent it isn't yet. So what one of you said (I forgot, and not scrolling up) is correct... abortion is about playing god, and making the ultimate decision over life and death based on your own personal feelings.
Facts:
Day 1 - conception takes place.
7 days - tiny human implants in mother’s uterus.
10 days - mother’s menses stop.
18 days - heart begins to beat.
21 days - pumps own blood through separate closed circulatory system with own blood type.
28 days - eye, ear and respiratory system begin to form.
42 days - brain waves recorded, skeleton complete, reflexes present.
7 weeks - photo of thumbsucking.
8 weeks - all body systems present.
9 weeks - squints, swallows, moves tongue, makes fist.
11 weeks - spontaneous breathing movements, has fingernails, all body systems working.
12 weeks - weighs one ounce.
16 weeks - genital organs clearly differentiated, grasps with hands, swims, kicks, turns, somersaults, (still not felt by the mother.)
18 weeks - vocal cords work – can cry.
20 weeks - has hair on head, weighs one pound, 12 inches long.
23 weeks - 15% chance of viability outside of womb if birth premature.*
24 weeks - 56% of babies survive premature birth.*
25 weeks - 79% of babies survive premature birth.*
So at 18 days the heart is beating... that's medically the only thing that determines that people are alive in a lot of cases. Of course, those are people that are out of the womb... so it's different, right?
I agree with adoption. There are plenty of people out there that are more than happy to take care of kids. As to the 40 weeks of bonding that occurs, that's simply a small sacrifice you can make since children should be important to us.
I just think it's sad that people abort, because in my eyes it's taking an innocent life. I also think it's fucked up that someone will freely support abortion, but also go on about saving some rare animal species from extinction. We as a society have royally screwed up our priorities.
Mind you, I'm not religious, so this isn't based on the Bible, Quran, etc. My views are simply based on the respect for human life that should still be ingrained into our natures (it obviously isn't anymore).
Everyone seems to argue about when it's too late to abort, rather than if it's okay. Everyone talks about reasons for abortion such as the pregnancy endangering the mother's health, rape, and other things relating to the mother. Yet many of the same people say there's nothing more important than their children. The fact is, if you abort a baby to save the mother, does that mean the child isn't the most important thing anymore? Is the ultimate sacrifice for a child only willingly given after it is born? With the medical technology we have these days, there's not a whole lot of cases where carrying out a pregnancy endangers a mother anyway. As far as rape goes, most stranger rapes occur because women dress slutty and go places they shouldn't. However, most rapists are known to their victims before the crime occurs. I think it's obvious that if a woman/girl can't trust someone to be alone with them (and gut feelings don't lie most of the time), then don't be alone with them.
People want to kill the baby/fetus to fix a "problem" that baby/fetus didn't cause. It's justified because they can't see the baby, so it's less real to them. The fact is, when conception takes place, life is created. Abortion extinguishes that life, no matter how intelligent it isn't yet. So what one of you said (I forgot, and not scrolling up) is correct... abortion is about playing god, and making the ultimate decision over life and death based on your own personal feelings.
Facts:
Day 1 - conception takes place.
7 days - tiny human implants in mother’s uterus.
10 days - mother’s menses stop.
18 days - heart begins to beat.
21 days - pumps own blood through separate closed circulatory system with own blood type.
28 days - eye, ear and respiratory system begin to form.
42 days - brain waves recorded, skeleton complete, reflexes present.
7 weeks - photo of thumbsucking.
8 weeks - all body systems present.
9 weeks - squints, swallows, moves tongue, makes fist.
11 weeks - spontaneous breathing movements, has fingernails, all body systems working.
12 weeks - weighs one ounce.
16 weeks - genital organs clearly differentiated, grasps with hands, swims, kicks, turns, somersaults, (still not felt by the mother.)
18 weeks - vocal cords work – can cry.
20 weeks - has hair on head, weighs one pound, 12 inches long.
23 weeks - 15% chance of viability outside of womb if birth premature.*
24 weeks - 56% of babies survive premature birth.*
25 weeks - 79% of babies survive premature birth.*
So at 18 days the heart is beating... that's medically the only thing that determines that people are alive in a lot of cases. Of course, those are people that are out of the womb... so it's different, right?
I agree with adoption. There are plenty of people out there that are more than happy to take care of kids. As to the 40 weeks of bonding that occurs, that's simply a small sacrifice you can make since children should be important to us.
I just think it's sad that people abort, because in my eyes it's taking an innocent life. I also think it's fucked up that someone will freely support abortion, but also go on about saving some rare animal species from extinction. We as a society have royally screwed up our priorities.
Mind you, I'm not religious, so this isn't based on the Bible, Quran, etc. My views are simply based on the respect for human life that should still be ingrained into our natures (it obviously isn't anymore).
Josie
04-08-2008, 04:12 AM
Is the ultimate sacrifice for a child only willingly given after it is born?
Out of sight, out of mind?
With the medical technology we have these days, there's not a whole lot of cases where carrying out a pregnancy endangers a mother anyway.
Oh wow. This is completely assumed. Look up pre-eclampsia, just as an example.
As far as rape goes, most stranger rapes occur because women dress slutty and go places they shouldn't.
I'm not sure I believe this. Do you have any support for that? If you do, I'd like to read it. I'm currently starting on a book called Men on Rape. The person who lent it to me summed up the book to say that women ask for and deserve rape, however, that just doesn't seem like it fits to me.
People want to kill the baby/fetus to fix a "problem" that baby/fetus didn't cause. It's justified because they can't see the baby, so it's less real to them.
Nevermind that there are too many humans anyways. Also, babies born prematurely or women who die during childbirth, etc no longer make up a significant part of our deaths. There isn't much we don't do to keep someone alive. That makes us different from the other animals on this planet. We continue to keep having babies and find ways to keep those that would have died alive. This poses a population problem.
The fact is, when conception takes place, life is created. Abortion extinguishes that life, no matter how intelligent it isn't yet. So what one of you said (I forgot, and not scrolling up) is correct... abortion is about playing god, and making the ultimate decision over life and death based on your own personal feelings.
We already "play god" by keeping alive our "loved ones" when they really should be rotting somewhere. All medical decisions we make are about personal feelings. How is this any different?
Facts:
23 weeks - 15% chance of viability outside of womb if birth premature.*
24 weeks - 56% of babies survive premature birth.*
25 weeks - 79% of babies survive premature birth.*
And this is not alarming to you? a fetus that is just over halfway baked is going to live? Yes, that stands for great medical leaps and bounds, but when do we take some responsibility for our actions and see the issues we are perpetuating? Maybe a small part of that solution is as grim as sucking a tiny human being out a straw into a meat grinder?
I agree with adoption. There are plenty of people out there that are more than happy to take care of kids. As to the 40 weeks of bonding that occurs, that's simply a small sacrifice you can make since children should be important to us.
Agreed, adoption is great, but the birthmother is given two days to change her mind and often does. Not because she can afford the kid or anything great and wonderful, it's often because she comes from a single-minded, lowlife family who pressures her to keep it and give it a terrible life. Yay!
As for the cases that don't go sour, it's a dream come true for some people to finally have a baby of their own, but it's still adding more people to the world. That, and what about the kids who aren't fresh out the womb and need a home? They just stay in state custody until they're 18, then they're off! More problem kids. Eek!
If there weren't as many cute squishies just out the oven, those looking to adopt would have to accept that they would be receiving an older child and we'd have less parentless kids to pay for.
I just think it's sad that people abort, because in my eyes it's taking an innocent life. I also think it's fucked up that someone will freely support abortion, but also go on about saving some rare animal species from extinction. We as a society have royally screwed up our priorities.
Wow, you really just tried to compare that didn't you? Am I completely unaware of our going extinct suddenly? Are we losing numbers dramatically and something needs to be done about it?
As for priorities... *raises eyebrow* We should be satisfied with our constant multiplication, which directly or indirectly pushes out another species? We shouldn't be doing anything to help fix what we're ruining?
_________
I'd love to say more and make this a more coherent argument, but I, ironically, have a child to tend to and it's really really late.
Good night, all :)
Out of sight, out of mind?
With the medical technology we have these days, there's not a whole lot of cases where carrying out a pregnancy endangers a mother anyway.
Oh wow. This is completely assumed. Look up pre-eclampsia, just as an example.
As far as rape goes, most stranger rapes occur because women dress slutty and go places they shouldn't.
I'm not sure I believe this. Do you have any support for that? If you do, I'd like to read it. I'm currently starting on a book called Men on Rape. The person who lent it to me summed up the book to say that women ask for and deserve rape, however, that just doesn't seem like it fits to me.
People want to kill the baby/fetus to fix a "problem" that baby/fetus didn't cause. It's justified because they can't see the baby, so it's less real to them.
Nevermind that there are too many humans anyways. Also, babies born prematurely or women who die during childbirth, etc no longer make up a significant part of our deaths. There isn't much we don't do to keep someone alive. That makes us different from the other animals on this planet. We continue to keep having babies and find ways to keep those that would have died alive. This poses a population problem.
The fact is, when conception takes place, life is created. Abortion extinguishes that life, no matter how intelligent it isn't yet. So what one of you said (I forgot, and not scrolling up) is correct... abortion is about playing god, and making the ultimate decision over life and death based on your own personal feelings.
We already "play god" by keeping alive our "loved ones" when they really should be rotting somewhere. All medical decisions we make are about personal feelings. How is this any different?
Facts:
23 weeks - 15% chance of viability outside of womb if birth premature.*
24 weeks - 56% of babies survive premature birth.*
25 weeks - 79% of babies survive premature birth.*
And this is not alarming to you? a fetus that is just over halfway baked is going to live? Yes, that stands for great medical leaps and bounds, but when do we take some responsibility for our actions and see the issues we are perpetuating? Maybe a small part of that solution is as grim as sucking a tiny human being out a straw into a meat grinder?
I agree with adoption. There are plenty of people out there that are more than happy to take care of kids. As to the 40 weeks of bonding that occurs, that's simply a small sacrifice you can make since children should be important to us.
Agreed, adoption is great, but the birthmother is given two days to change her mind and often does. Not because she can afford the kid or anything great and wonderful, it's often because she comes from a single-minded, lowlife family who pressures her to keep it and give it a terrible life. Yay!
As for the cases that don't go sour, it's a dream come true for some people to finally have a baby of their own, but it's still adding more people to the world. That, and what about the kids who aren't fresh out the womb and need a home? They just stay in state custody until they're 18, then they're off! More problem kids. Eek!
If there weren't as many cute squishies just out the oven, those looking to adopt would have to accept that they would be receiving an older child and we'd have less parentless kids to pay for.
I just think it's sad that people abort, because in my eyes it's taking an innocent life. I also think it's fucked up that someone will freely support abortion, but also go on about saving some rare animal species from extinction. We as a society have royally screwed up our priorities.
Wow, you really just tried to compare that didn't you? Am I completely unaware of our going extinct suddenly? Are we losing numbers dramatically and something needs to be done about it?
As for priorities... *raises eyebrow* We should be satisfied with our constant multiplication, which directly or indirectly pushes out another species? We shouldn't be doing anything to help fix what we're ruining?
_________
I'd love to say more and make this a more coherent argument, but I, ironically, have a child to tend to and it's really really late.
Good night, all :)
mcsmc
04-08-2008, 04:31 AM
Out of sight, out of mind?
Yeah, pretty convenient. Guilt's easy to push away.
Oh wow. This is completely assumed. Look up pre-eclampsia, just as an example.
Forgive me. I meant, it's hardly a problem compared to, say, even 20 years ago.
I'm not sure I believe this. Do you have any support for that? If you do, I'd like to read it. I'm currently starting on a book called Men on Rape. The person who lent it to me summed up the book to say that women ask for and deserve rape, however, that just doesn't seem like it fits to me.
Contrary to popular belief, stranger rapes aren't usually planned. It's a crime of opportunity. I never said women ask for it, because that's not the case. However, stranger rape victims often do put themselves in a situation which had they not been in, they wouldn't have gotten raped. And no, I won't be bothered to find support on this right now. I studied books (not interweb pages) on it years ago, including sex crime psychology.
Nevermind that there are too many humans anyways. Also, babies born prematurely or women who die during childbirth, etc no longer make up a significant part of our deaths. There isn't much we don't do to keep someone alive. That makes us different from the other animals on this planet. We continue to keep having babies and find ways to keep those that would have died alive. This poses a population problem.
Population problem? First of all, abortion is hardly the best option for population control. Abortion is not only a voluntary procedure, but it's also obviously a morally problematic issue. I think "overpopulation" views and population control are entirely different subjects. However, if you want to bring that up, I'll bring this (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n51_v9/ai_14719556) up. I could find better material for you to read on the subject, but don't have the time right now.
We already "play god" by keeping alive our "loved ones" when they really should be rotting somewhere. All medical decisions we make are about personal feelings. How is this any different?
Again, that seems another subject. However, I don't agree with keeping vegetables hooked up to breathing machines for lengthy periods, either.
And this is not alarming to you? a fetus that is just over halfway baked is going to live? Yes, that stands for great medical leaps and bounds, but when do we take some responsibility for our actions and see the issues we are perpetuating? Maybe a small part of that solution is as grim as sucking a tiny human being out a straw into a meat grinder?
No, it's not alarming to me that we're finding better ways to enable life.
Agreed, adoption is great, but the birthmother is given two days to change her mind and often does. Not because she can afford the kid or anything great and wonderful, it's often because she comes from a single-minded, lowlife family who pressures her to keep it and give it a terrible life. Yay!
As for the cases that don't go sour, it's a dream come true for some people to finally have a baby of their own, but it's still adding more people to the world. That, and what about the kids who aren't fresh out the womb and need a home? They just stay in state custody until they're 18, then they're off! More problem kids. Eek!
If there weren't as many cute squishies just out the oven, those looking to adopt would have to accept that they would be receiving an older child and we'd have less parentless kids to pay for.
It's the mother's child, so if she decides to keep it, then good for her. If the child has a shitty upbringing, you think that's worse than being put to death? Life is full of pain... so mandating the "easy way out" for someone that can't make the choice themselves is justified? I don't agree with that.
And there are plenty of people that take in older children as well.
Wow, you really just tried to compare that didn't you? Am I completely unaware of our going extinct suddenly? Are we losing numbers dramatically and something needs to be done about it?
Yeah, I just compared that, because the fact isn't extinction. Let me add another point... all of the sea life that we spend millions to clean up from our oil spills and etc. Why not just let them die? They're not becoming extinct. I just think that our purpose shouldn't be to stop life, but promote it.
As for priorities... *raises eyebrow* We should be satisfied with our constant multiplication, which directly or indirectly pushes out another species? We shouldn't be doing anything to help fix what we're ruining?
Ever heard of Darwinism?
I'd love to say more and make this a more coherent argument, but I, ironically, have a child to tend to and it's really really late.
Good night, all :)
Yeah... that is ironic. ;)
Yeah, pretty convenient. Guilt's easy to push away.
Oh wow. This is completely assumed. Look up pre-eclampsia, just as an example.
Forgive me. I meant, it's hardly a problem compared to, say, even 20 years ago.
I'm not sure I believe this. Do you have any support for that? If you do, I'd like to read it. I'm currently starting on a book called Men on Rape. The person who lent it to me summed up the book to say that women ask for and deserve rape, however, that just doesn't seem like it fits to me.
Contrary to popular belief, stranger rapes aren't usually planned. It's a crime of opportunity. I never said women ask for it, because that's not the case. However, stranger rape victims often do put themselves in a situation which had they not been in, they wouldn't have gotten raped. And no, I won't be bothered to find support on this right now. I studied books (not interweb pages) on it years ago, including sex crime psychology.
Nevermind that there are too many humans anyways. Also, babies born prematurely or women who die during childbirth, etc no longer make up a significant part of our deaths. There isn't much we don't do to keep someone alive. That makes us different from the other animals on this planet. We continue to keep having babies and find ways to keep those that would have died alive. This poses a population problem.
Population problem? First of all, abortion is hardly the best option for population control. Abortion is not only a voluntary procedure, but it's also obviously a morally problematic issue. I think "overpopulation" views and population control are entirely different subjects. However, if you want to bring that up, I'll bring this (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n51_v9/ai_14719556) up. I could find better material for you to read on the subject, but don't have the time right now.
We already "play god" by keeping alive our "loved ones" when they really should be rotting somewhere. All medical decisions we make are about personal feelings. How is this any different?
Again, that seems another subject. However, I don't agree with keeping vegetables hooked up to breathing machines for lengthy periods, either.
And this is not alarming to you? a fetus that is just over halfway baked is going to live? Yes, that stands for great medical leaps and bounds, but when do we take some responsibility for our actions and see the issues we are perpetuating? Maybe a small part of that solution is as grim as sucking a tiny human being out a straw into a meat grinder?
No, it's not alarming to me that we're finding better ways to enable life.
Agreed, adoption is great, but the birthmother is given two days to change her mind and often does. Not because she can afford the kid or anything great and wonderful, it's often because she comes from a single-minded, lowlife family who pressures her to keep it and give it a terrible life. Yay!
As for the cases that don't go sour, it's a dream come true for some people to finally have a baby of their own, but it's still adding more people to the world. That, and what about the kids who aren't fresh out the womb and need a home? They just stay in state custody until they're 18, then they're off! More problem kids. Eek!
If there weren't as many cute squishies just out the oven, those looking to adopt would have to accept that they would be receiving an older child and we'd have less parentless kids to pay for.
It's the mother's child, so if she decides to keep it, then good for her. If the child has a shitty upbringing, you think that's worse than being put to death? Life is full of pain... so mandating the "easy way out" for someone that can't make the choice themselves is justified? I don't agree with that.
And there are plenty of people that take in older children as well.
Wow, you really just tried to compare that didn't you? Am I completely unaware of our going extinct suddenly? Are we losing numbers dramatically and something needs to be done about it?
Yeah, I just compared that, because the fact isn't extinction. Let me add another point... all of the sea life that we spend millions to clean up from our oil spills and etc. Why not just let them die? They're not becoming extinct. I just think that our purpose shouldn't be to stop life, but promote it.
As for priorities... *raises eyebrow* We should be satisfied with our constant multiplication, which directly or indirectly pushes out another species? We shouldn't be doing anything to help fix what we're ruining?
Ever heard of Darwinism?
I'd love to say more and make this a more coherent argument, but I, ironically, have a child to tend to and it's really really late.
Good night, all :)
Yeah... that is ironic. ;)
Josie
04-08-2008, 05:35 AM
I never said women ask for it, because that's not the case. However, stranger rape victims often do put themselves in a situation which had they not been in, they wouldn't have gotten raped.
I wasn't trying to put those words in your mouth. The topic brought to mind the book and that the general idea (or so it seemed to my friend) was that you are correct in that it is a crime of opportunity.
Population problem? First of all, abortion is hardly the best option for population control.
True, however, why TRY to keep upping the number of babies born and surviving being born when there is really no need?
However, if you want to bring that up, I'll bring this (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n51_v9/ai_14719556) up. I could find better material for you to read on the subject, but don't have the time right now.
Meh, I started to read it... too much fluff for my brain at the moment. I'll read it later.
No, it's not alarming to me that we're finding better ways to enable life.
Where there is already plennnnty of it. I had a "preterm" labor scare that turned out to be something odd that is completely harmless. However, upon being admitted for possible delivery, I made peace with the idea that my baby might have been born that day and I would not see him grow up. I also was upset by the idea that even being born at 23 weeks, he would be given a miserable existence until his original due date and then released to me full of health issues.
I, honestly, would much rather have him and watch him die in my arms.
This^ is what women ought to prepare themselves for. NOT, "They're doctors, they can make him live. I have hope *teary moment* "
No. For whatever reason (maybe even stupidity on the pregnant mother's part. Yes, that would have included me), that baby and that mother's body were not fit to naturally coincide for 40 weeks.
The topic of preemies is very very touchy. I understand that. So, if there is anyone here who is currently a parent (or is close to someone who is) of a child born prematurely and was saved by modern medicine, please do not take this personally. I'm not above understanding that most everything is not as cut and dry as a couple replies in an abortion thread. However, this is my general opinion... even if it's not something you agree with or that "works for you."
It's the mother's child, so if she decides to keep it, then good for her. If the child has a shitty upbringing, you think that's worse than being put to death? Life is full of pain... so mandating the "easy way out" for someone that can't make the choice themselves is justified? I don't agree with that.
And allowing someone obviously unfit to be a parent to CHOOSE to do so is more justified because....
And there are plenty of people that take in older children as well.
*scoff* Not enough. That's like saying, "Well, hey, SOME of the crap we throw away is biodegradable, so let's just not worry about the rest of it."
Yeah, I just compared that, because the fact isn't extinction. Let me add another point... all of the sea life that we spend millions to clean up from our oil spills and etc. Why not just let them die? They're not becoming extinct. I just think that our purpose shouldn't be to stop life, but promote it.
Too black and white. We can simultaneously promote life and allow for it to be "stopped" as well.
EDIT: Okay, I lied. The kidlet's back to bed and I can't sleep, so here I am, once again! *bats lashes*
I wasn't trying to put those words in your mouth. The topic brought to mind the book and that the general idea (or so it seemed to my friend) was that you are correct in that it is a crime of opportunity.
Population problem? First of all, abortion is hardly the best option for population control.
True, however, why TRY to keep upping the number of babies born and surviving being born when there is really no need?
However, if you want to bring that up, I'll bring this (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n51_v9/ai_14719556) up. I could find better material for you to read on the subject, but don't have the time right now.
Meh, I started to read it... too much fluff for my brain at the moment. I'll read it later.
No, it's not alarming to me that we're finding better ways to enable life.
Where there is already plennnnty of it. I had a "preterm" labor scare that turned out to be something odd that is completely harmless. However, upon being admitted for possible delivery, I made peace with the idea that my baby might have been born that day and I would not see him grow up. I also was upset by the idea that even being born at 23 weeks, he would be given a miserable existence until his original due date and then released to me full of health issues.
I, honestly, would much rather have him and watch him die in my arms.
This^ is what women ought to prepare themselves for. NOT, "They're doctors, they can make him live. I have hope *teary moment* "
No. For whatever reason (maybe even stupidity on the pregnant mother's part. Yes, that would have included me), that baby and that mother's body were not fit to naturally coincide for 40 weeks.
The topic of preemies is very very touchy. I understand that. So, if there is anyone here who is currently a parent (or is close to someone who is) of a child born prematurely and was saved by modern medicine, please do not take this personally. I'm not above understanding that most everything is not as cut and dry as a couple replies in an abortion thread. However, this is my general opinion... even if it's not something you agree with or that "works for you."
It's the mother's child, so if she decides to keep it, then good for her. If the child has a shitty upbringing, you think that's worse than being put to death? Life is full of pain... so mandating the "easy way out" for someone that can't make the choice themselves is justified? I don't agree with that.
And allowing someone obviously unfit to be a parent to CHOOSE to do so is more justified because....
And there are plenty of people that take in older children as well.
*scoff* Not enough. That's like saying, "Well, hey, SOME of the crap we throw away is biodegradable, so let's just not worry about the rest of it."
Yeah, I just compared that, because the fact isn't extinction. Let me add another point... all of the sea life that we spend millions to clean up from our oil spills and etc. Why not just let them die? They're not becoming extinct. I just think that our purpose shouldn't be to stop life, but promote it.
Too black and white. We can simultaneously promote life and allow for it to be "stopped" as well.
EDIT: Okay, I lied. The kidlet's back to bed and I can't sleep, so here I am, once again! *bats lashes*
Jenn
04-08-2008, 08:37 AM
That's the moral question. At what point do you abort and not abort.
Would you consider a Zygote to be a baby?
Granted, it has the end process of becoming a baby but at that stage, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue.
Should one be emotionally attached to a clump of tissue that is nothing less than the vistigial remains of our earlier evolutionary process.
I was atttached the moment I found out and that was at five weeks. It may not be a baby, but it was something that was going to grow to be the one thing that I love the most in the world. Of course, thats just how I feel and everyone has different views on the matter.
Would you consider a Zygote to be a baby?
Granted, it has the end process of becoming a baby but at that stage, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue.
Should one be emotionally attached to a clump of tissue that is nothing less than the vistigial remains of our earlier evolutionary process.
I was atttached the moment I found out and that was at five weeks. It may not be a baby, but it was something that was going to grow to be the one thing that I love the most in the world. Of course, thats just how I feel and everyone has different views on the matter.
KommieKat
04-08-2008, 08:37 AM
[INDENT] [INDENT] [INDENT]
[LIST]
7 days - tiny human implants in mother’s uterus.
You make it sound like Right wing Bible belting fanatic propaganda.
There is NO tiny human nor anything that resembles a tiny human in 7 days.
It has potential to become human but at 7 days, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue clinging to the side of the uterus.
Next thing you're going to tell us that the embryo gives out a silent scream as it's being aborted. Give me a break.
[LIST]
7 days - tiny human implants in mother’s uterus.
You make it sound like Right wing Bible belting fanatic propaganda.
There is NO tiny human nor anything that resembles a tiny human in 7 days.
It has potential to become human but at 7 days, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue clinging to the side of the uterus.
Next thing you're going to tell us that the embryo gives out a silent scream as it's being aborted. Give me a break.
Jenn
04-08-2008, 08:48 AM
You make it sound like Right wing Bible belting fanatic propaganda.
There is NO tiny human nor anything that resembles a tiny human in 7 days.
It has potential to become human but at 7 days, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue clinging to the side of the uterus.
Next thing you're going to tell us that the embryo gives out a silent scream as it's being aborted. Give me a break.
When I was six weeks pregnant, I staretd to bleed and they called it a "threatened abortion." It was the first time I seen my tiny lil dot..lol.. they said it was called the "yolk sac" May not look like a baby, but it was my baby.
There is NO tiny human nor anything that resembles a tiny human in 7 days.
It has potential to become human but at 7 days, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue clinging to the side of the uterus.
Next thing you're going to tell us that the embryo gives out a silent scream as it's being aborted. Give me a break.
When I was six weeks pregnant, I staretd to bleed and they called it a "threatened abortion." It was the first time I seen my tiny lil dot..lol.. they said it was called the "yolk sac" May not look like a baby, but it was my baby.
Polar Bear
04-08-2008, 08:53 AM
7 days.
When I was six weeks pregnant.....
Fail.:khi4a:
When I was six weeks pregnant.....
Fail.:khi4a:
mcsmc
04-08-2008, 02:42 PM
You make it sound like Right wing Bible belting fanatic propaganda.
There is NO tiny human nor anything that resembles a tiny human in 7 days.
It has potential to become human but at 7 days, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue clinging to the side of the uterus.
Next thing you're going to tell us that the embryo gives out a silent scream as it's being aborted. Give me a break.
Wow, pick on wording from a c/p I used in my post to make points. Good work there, Corky.
There is NO tiny human nor anything that resembles a tiny human in 7 days.
It has potential to become human but at 7 days, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue clinging to the side of the uterus.
Next thing you're going to tell us that the embryo gives out a silent scream as it's being aborted. Give me a break.
Wow, pick on wording from a c/p I used in my post to make points. Good work there, Corky.
mcsmc
04-08-2008, 02:46 PM
Let's put it this way. If someone has an abortion, that's their issue, not mine. I won't judge someone (in real life anyway... I'd probably judge them on a forum because they're dumb enough to put the information out).
However, if I was in a position of political power, I would keep the current views I have and act accordingly.
However, if I was in a position of political power, I would keep the current views I have and act accordingly.
Josie
04-08-2008, 04:42 PM
Let's put it this way. If someone has an abortion, that's their issue, not mine. I won't judge someone (in real life anyway... I'd probably judge them on a forum because they're dumb enough to put the information out).
However, if I was in a position of political power, I would keep the current views I have and act accordingly.
I'm not sure if you took any of my posts wrong (which I don't think you did, but still)... if you did, I was really just wanting to debate the two sides of the argument with you.
I loverly you
:laluot_29:
However, if I was in a position of political power, I would keep the current views I have and act accordingly.
I'm not sure if you took any of my posts wrong (which I don't think you did, but still)... if you did, I was really just wanting to debate the two sides of the argument with you.
I loverly you
:laluot_29:
Celtic Crusher
04-08-2008, 08:28 PM
Abortion is murder. Pure and simple. Give whatever reasons you want, it won't change that fact. Even masturbation is murder.
But having said that, if my twelve year old (fictional) daughter was raped and impregnated I would hold her hand the whole way through the abortion if that's the road she chose to go down.
On the other hand, if a woman chooses to murder an unborn human at any stage due to her stupidity, that woman should then be sterilized.
Pregnant women should be forced to prove themselves worthy of caring for a child and if they fail, they should be forced to hand their child over to the authorities so that the child can be given to a loving couple who will care for the child properly.
But having said that, if my twelve year old (fictional) daughter was raped and impregnated I would hold her hand the whole way through the abortion if that's the road she chose to go down.
On the other hand, if a woman chooses to murder an unborn human at any stage due to her stupidity, that woman should then be sterilized.
Pregnant women should be forced to prove themselves worthy of caring for a child and if they fail, they should be forced to hand their child over to the authorities so that the child can be given to a loving couple who will care for the child properly.
Jenn
04-08-2008, 10:33 PM
Abortion is murder. Pure and simple. Give whatever reasons you want, it won't change that fact. Even masturbation is murder.
But having said that, if my twelve year old (fictional) daughter was raped and impregnated I would hold her hand the whole way through the abortion if that's the road she chose to go down.
On the other hand, if a woman chooses to murder an unborn human at any stage due to her stupidity, that woman should then be sterilized.
Pregnant women should be forced to prove themselves worthy of caring for a child and if they fail, they should be forced to hand their child over to the authorities so that the child can be given to a loving couple who will care for the child properly.
I agree with everything you said.
But having said that, if my twelve year old (fictional) daughter was raped and impregnated I would hold her hand the whole way through the abortion if that's the road she chose to go down.
On the other hand, if a woman chooses to murder an unborn human at any stage due to her stupidity, that woman should then be sterilized.
Pregnant women should be forced to prove themselves worthy of caring for a child and if they fail, they should be forced to hand their child over to the authorities so that the child can be given to a loving couple who will care for the child properly.
I agree with everything you said.
Celtic Crusher
04-09-2008, 06:17 AM
I agree with everything you said.
Instead of saying what I said I was just gonna say, I completely agree with Jenn. But I wanted to get a proper post out of it.
Instead of saying what I said I was just gonna say, I completely agree with Jenn. But I wanted to get a proper post out of it.
suki
04-09-2008, 10:27 AM
I'm about as liberal as they come (or at least I used to be. getting older has a strange way of changing your views...sometimes without you even realizing it)...
however, I am ADAMANTLY opposed to abortion.
in high school, I was as pro-choice as one could be. IT'S A WOMAN'S RIGHT! DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH MY BODY! SHOVE YOUR BIBLE UP YOUR ASS!
...then I got pregnant. I felt immediately that there was life in me.
call it a mass of cells, call it a vestigial remnant of..whatever the fuck whoever said that said...but its the potential for life.
and much like I hesitate to squish a bug, but instead trap and release the worthless fucks...
there is no way on the planet I could kill it.
miracle. it really is an absolute fucking miracle that conception occurs. and while I'll agree with anyone that we're experiencing entirely too fucking many miracles on this planet...abortion is still morally (NOT religiously) reprehensible to me.
moreso than I can judge a woman who's had one...is how I feel about the doctors who perform them. UNMOTHERFUCKINGBELIEVABLE that someone with medical training...SWORN to protect and preserve life (I have my own issues with that little dandy off a hypocratical oath. hence me being tossed out of medical school firmly onto my ass)...slashing a child to pieces partially in utero.
disgusting.
I'm not foolish enough to discount the emotional and psychological aspects of such a "procedure" either.
some women can have multiple abortions and feel absolutely nothing but relieved.
MOST...cannot.
women suffer when they've "killed" their baby. they mourn. it causes them anguish and guilt later in life when they finally do decide to go through with it. and invariably affects the children they later decide to keep.
its all around a dirty, guilt-ridden, murderous business.
having said all that...I TRY not to judge women who do it...more accurately women who HAVE done it. women who do it on a regular basis can meet the business end of my cast iron skillet and I'd very likely feel zero remorse.
I KNOW that having a baby in a situation less than ideal is taxing. I was 17 when I got pregnant the first time. I was pressured from almost everyone in my life to have an abortion.
I told them all to fuck off.
what will you do about college?
I'll figure it out.
where will you get support?
I'll figure it out.
how will you raise it?
with love and guidance.
but I know not all women can do what I did...and to be quite honest with you...once I told every family member that suggested abortion that I'd kill them if they ever mentioned it again...
they changed 'tac and actually offered support.
on the other hand, I've worked in women's shelters where the loser parents of the girls who DIDN'T have abortions threw them out on the street. those places suck...and most of those girls still have their heads up their asses...
but SOME...some of them were still really amazing mothers and will set good examples and raise socially conscientious children.
like I said the other day in an unrelated conversation...
being pregnant almost kills me.
being a mom gives me super powers.
I think that if the immediate response to an unplanned pregnancy is to just end it...
most women are just selling themselves short.
however, I am ADAMANTLY opposed to abortion.
in high school, I was as pro-choice as one could be. IT'S A WOMAN'S RIGHT! DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH MY BODY! SHOVE YOUR BIBLE UP YOUR ASS!
...then I got pregnant. I felt immediately that there was life in me.
call it a mass of cells, call it a vestigial remnant of..whatever the fuck whoever said that said...but its the potential for life.
and much like I hesitate to squish a bug, but instead trap and release the worthless fucks...
there is no way on the planet I could kill it.
miracle. it really is an absolute fucking miracle that conception occurs. and while I'll agree with anyone that we're experiencing entirely too fucking many miracles on this planet...abortion is still morally (NOT religiously) reprehensible to me.
moreso than I can judge a woman who's had one...is how I feel about the doctors who perform them. UNMOTHERFUCKINGBELIEVABLE that someone with medical training...SWORN to protect and preserve life (I have my own issues with that little dandy off a hypocratical oath. hence me being tossed out of medical school firmly onto my ass)...slashing a child to pieces partially in utero.
disgusting.
I'm not foolish enough to discount the emotional and psychological aspects of such a "procedure" either.
some women can have multiple abortions and feel absolutely nothing but relieved.
MOST...cannot.
women suffer when they've "killed" their baby. they mourn. it causes them anguish and guilt later in life when they finally do decide to go through with it. and invariably affects the children they later decide to keep.
its all around a dirty, guilt-ridden, murderous business.
having said all that...I TRY not to judge women who do it...more accurately women who HAVE done it. women who do it on a regular basis can meet the business end of my cast iron skillet and I'd very likely feel zero remorse.
I KNOW that having a baby in a situation less than ideal is taxing. I was 17 when I got pregnant the first time. I was pressured from almost everyone in my life to have an abortion.
I told them all to fuck off.
what will you do about college?
I'll figure it out.
where will you get support?
I'll figure it out.
how will you raise it?
with love and guidance.
but I know not all women can do what I did...and to be quite honest with you...once I told every family member that suggested abortion that I'd kill them if they ever mentioned it again...
they changed 'tac and actually offered support.
on the other hand, I've worked in women's shelters where the loser parents of the girls who DIDN'T have abortions threw them out on the street. those places suck...and most of those girls still have their heads up their asses...
but SOME...some of them were still really amazing mothers and will set good examples and raise socially conscientious children.
like I said the other day in an unrelated conversation...
being pregnant almost kills me.
being a mom gives me super powers.
I think that if the immediate response to an unplanned pregnancy is to just end it...
most women are just selling themselves short.
Shade
04-09-2008, 05:07 PM
As far as rape goes, most stranger rapes occur because women dress slutty and go places they shouldn't. However, most rapists are known to their victims before the crime occurs. I think it's obvious that if a woman/girl can't trust someone to be alone with them (and gut feelings don't lie most of the time), then don't be alone with them.
Almost 2/3 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.
73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
28% are an intimate.
7% are a relative.
More than 50% of all rape/sexual assault incidents were reported by victims to have occured within 1 mile of their home or at their home.
4 in 10 take place at the victim's home.
2 in 10 take place at the home of a friend, neighbor, or relative.
1 in 12 take place in a parking garage.
43% of rapes occur between 6:00pm and midnight.
24% occur between midnight and 6:00am.
The other 33% take place between 6:00am and 6:00pm.
Some stats.
To further that, Rape isn't about sex, it's about control. There for sex appeal aka the way they dress play little to no baring what so ever. There actions however does. A girl with low self esteem is more likely to be raped, a girl who has rejected the assilanet is more likely to be raped. A girl who is all over the assilent and says how much she enjoys fucking isn't going to be a very good target, because part of the control is the struggle, and knowing they are doing something against there will. Hence why violent criminals are more likely to rape someone then massive nypho hornballs. Considering they happen mostly within a mile of the home, we can assume they arn't exactly going to a place where they probly would dress slutty. third of all, no one asks to be raped. Thats what right wing moral church idiots say because they think it will make women dress more conservativly. From my understanding a rapiest doesn't see a girl as hot or not, much as you or I would during the time he would be stalking his prey, he see's them as weak or not. Also of note, other then serial rapiests, there is no link to sexual prefrence when raping a victom. IE; if the guy digs blondes with big tits, there is the same chance that a blonde with big tits will be raped as an black haired chick with no tits.
Now abortion cause by rape also has INTENSE tramatic effects on the women and her relastionships. Often times she sees the assalient in there kids face. A husband also tends to resent said child. so basicly your fucked if your that kid.
Other then that, your post was very informative and made some good points.
Almost 2/3 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.
73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
28% are an intimate.
7% are a relative.
More than 50% of all rape/sexual assault incidents were reported by victims to have occured within 1 mile of their home or at their home.
4 in 10 take place at the victim's home.
2 in 10 take place at the home of a friend, neighbor, or relative.
1 in 12 take place in a parking garage.
43% of rapes occur between 6:00pm and midnight.
24% occur between midnight and 6:00am.
The other 33% take place between 6:00am and 6:00pm.
Some stats.
To further that, Rape isn't about sex, it's about control. There for sex appeal aka the way they dress play little to no baring what so ever. There actions however does. A girl with low self esteem is more likely to be raped, a girl who has rejected the assilanet is more likely to be raped. A girl who is all over the assilent and says how much she enjoys fucking isn't going to be a very good target, because part of the control is the struggle, and knowing they are doing something against there will. Hence why violent criminals are more likely to rape someone then massive nypho hornballs. Considering they happen mostly within a mile of the home, we can assume they arn't exactly going to a place where they probly would dress slutty. third of all, no one asks to be raped. Thats what right wing moral church idiots say because they think it will make women dress more conservativly. From my understanding a rapiest doesn't see a girl as hot or not, much as you or I would during the time he would be stalking his prey, he see's them as weak or not. Also of note, other then serial rapiests, there is no link to sexual prefrence when raping a victom. IE; if the guy digs blondes with big tits, there is the same chance that a blonde with big tits will be raped as an black haired chick with no tits.
Now abortion cause by rape also has INTENSE tramatic effects on the women and her relastionships. Often times she sees the assalient in there kids face. A husband also tends to resent said child. so basicly your fucked if your that kid.
Other then that, your post was very informative and made some good points.
InterStella
04-09-2008, 06:04 PM
..... if my twelve year old (fictional) daughter was raped and impregnated I would hold her hand the whole way through the abortion if that's the road she chose to go down.
And if she chose to carry on with the pregnancy.... how would that make you feel? She's 12, don't forget, and has been raped. Would you not try to atleast talk her into a termination? Would you still consider it murder?
And if she chose to carry on with the pregnancy.... how would that make you feel? She's 12, don't forget, and has been raped. Would you not try to atleast talk her into a termination? Would you still consider it murder?
mcsmc
04-10-2008, 11:42 AM
Almost 2/3 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.
73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
28% are an intimate.
7% are a relative.
More than 50% of all rape/sexual assault incidents were reported by victims to have occured within 1 mile of their home or at their home.
4 in 10 take place at the victim's home.
2 in 10 take place at the home of a friend, neighbor, or relative.
1 in 12 take place in a parking garage.
43% of rapes occur between 6:00pm and midnight.
24% occur between midnight and 6:00am.
The other 33% take place between 6:00am and 6:00pm.
Some stats.
To further that, Rape isn't about sex, it's about control. There for sex appeal aka the way they dress play little to no baring what so ever. There actions however does. A girl with low self esteem is more likely to be raped, a girl who has rejected the assilanet is more likely to be raped. A girl who is all over the assilent and says how much she enjoys fucking isn't going to be a very good target, because part of the control is the struggle, and knowing they are doing something against there will. Hence why violent criminals are more likely to rape someone then massive nypho hornballs. Considering they happen mostly within a mile of the home, we can assume they arn't exactly going to a place where they probly would dress slutty. third of all, no one asks to be raped. Thats what right wing moral church idiots say because they think it will make women dress more conservativly. From my understanding a rapiest doesn't see a girl as hot or not, much as you or I would during the time he would be stalking his prey, he see's them as weak or not. Also of note, other then serial rapiests, there is no link to sexual prefrence when raping a victom. IE; if the guy digs blondes with big tits, there is the same chance that a blonde with big tits will be raped as an black haired chick with no tits.
Now abortion cause by rape also has INTENSE tramatic effects on the women and her relastionships. Often times she sees the assalient in there kids face. A husband also tends to resent said child. so basicly your fucked if your that kid.
Other then that, your post was very informative and made some good points.
Thanks for reiterating my first day's reading on the subject back when I studied it. I'm glad you found the information yourself. Seriously.
However, on the same point... that's just the tip of the iceberg. Sure, rape is about control, but it's also about loss of control, and victims of other things reaching out in ways that they don't stop and think could hurt the people THEY victimize. Who knows, I probably lost you with that, but the fact remains that human minds and actions aren't ever simple enough to congregate into simple categories. I really don't like delving into the whole rape psychology area... and this thread's about abortion.
So, on that note, I don't think rape is ever a case that precludes the right to abort. There's always more than one way to look at things, and in the case that a woman gets raped and is impregnated as a result, she can either look at the pending child as a curse or a blessing that came from a bad circumstance. Regardless, it's not the child's fault that the rape occurred, so why kill the innocent? Anyway, that sums up my views on that.
73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
28% are an intimate.
7% are a relative.
More than 50% of all rape/sexual assault incidents were reported by victims to have occured within 1 mile of their home or at their home.
4 in 10 take place at the victim's home.
2 in 10 take place at the home of a friend, neighbor, or relative.
1 in 12 take place in a parking garage.
43% of rapes occur between 6:00pm and midnight.
24% occur between midnight and 6:00am.
The other 33% take place between 6:00am and 6:00pm.
Some stats.
To further that, Rape isn't about sex, it's about control. There for sex appeal aka the way they dress play little to no baring what so ever. There actions however does. A girl with low self esteem is more likely to be raped, a girl who has rejected the assilanet is more likely to be raped. A girl who is all over the assilent and says how much she enjoys fucking isn't going to be a very good target, because part of the control is the struggle, and knowing they are doing something against there will. Hence why violent criminals are more likely to rape someone then massive nypho hornballs. Considering they happen mostly within a mile of the home, we can assume they arn't exactly going to a place where they probly would dress slutty. third of all, no one asks to be raped. Thats what right wing moral church idiots say because they think it will make women dress more conservativly. From my understanding a rapiest doesn't see a girl as hot or not, much as you or I would during the time he would be stalking his prey, he see's them as weak or not. Also of note, other then serial rapiests, there is no link to sexual prefrence when raping a victom. IE; if the guy digs blondes with big tits, there is the same chance that a blonde with big tits will be raped as an black haired chick with no tits.
Now abortion cause by rape also has INTENSE tramatic effects on the women and her relastionships. Often times she sees the assalient in there kids face. A husband also tends to resent said child. so basicly your fucked if your that kid.
Other then that, your post was very informative and made some good points.
Thanks for reiterating my first day's reading on the subject back when I studied it. I'm glad you found the information yourself. Seriously.
However, on the same point... that's just the tip of the iceberg. Sure, rape is about control, but it's also about loss of control, and victims of other things reaching out in ways that they don't stop and think could hurt the people THEY victimize. Who knows, I probably lost you with that, but the fact remains that human minds and actions aren't ever simple enough to congregate into simple categories. I really don't like delving into the whole rape psychology area... and this thread's about abortion.
So, on that note, I don't think rape is ever a case that precludes the right to abort. There's always more than one way to look at things, and in the case that a woman gets raped and is impregnated as a result, she can either look at the pending child as a curse or a blessing that came from a bad circumstance. Regardless, it's not the child's fault that the rape occurred, so why kill the innocent? Anyway, that sums up my views on that.
Shade
04-10-2008, 09:17 PM
Thanks for reiterating my first day's reading on the subject back when I studied it. I'm glad you found the information yourself. Seriously.
However, on the same point... that's just the tip of the iceberg. Sure, rape is about control, but it's also about loss of control, and victims of other things reaching out in ways that they don't stop and think could hurt the people THEY victimize. Who knows, I probably lost you with that, but the fact remains that human minds and actions aren't ever simple enough to congregate into simple categories. I really don't like delving into the whole rape psychology area... and this thread's about abortion.
no i completely get your point here. the rapiest will rape indescrimantely, and its a crime. The woman can't make that her choice like that. Rapest are generally out to see pain or dont care if their victems are in pain, where the victem/prego DOES care about the child and the pain and suffering. I agree with that. my whole point was that if a docter planted a rat up your butt in surgery without your permision, you should get the option to remove it. Mainly because your rights where violated first, and the one who violated the rights of the rat is the doctor. I think the same thing goes with rapiests. I just think its worth to menchin simply beause it's the only thing that can't activly be prevented. Which my post was attempting to show that.
So, on that note, I don't think rape is ever a case that precludes the right to abort. There's always more than one way to look at things, and in the case that a woman gets raped and is impregnated as a result, she can either look at the pending child as a curse or a blessing that came from a bad circumstance. Regardless, it's not the child's fault that the rape occurred, so why kill the innocent? Anyway, that sums up my views on that.
I think, like you said earlier, the human mind is very complex and deep. Add in PTSD and that alone makes it so that in SOME cases it's impossible. You can change your attidute and work through PTSD, but ultimately like a vietnam vet your going to get triggers. If a car back blows or if her kids makes the same angry face he did. Yes sadly that isn't a made up comparision. I think rape though has a completely seperate place on this issue. As well as retards. If you COULDN'T not didnt but COULDNT make a choice,wether thats because your mentally retarded or if it was forced against your will, you should have the option. I think there is a vast difference between a stupid teen not thinking and a retard who doensn't understand what a circle is.
However, on the same point... that's just the tip of the iceberg. Sure, rape is about control, but it's also about loss of control, and victims of other things reaching out in ways that they don't stop and think could hurt the people THEY victimize. Who knows, I probably lost you with that, but the fact remains that human minds and actions aren't ever simple enough to congregate into simple categories. I really don't like delving into the whole rape psychology area... and this thread's about abortion.
no i completely get your point here. the rapiest will rape indescrimantely, and its a crime. The woman can't make that her choice like that. Rapest are generally out to see pain or dont care if their victems are in pain, where the victem/prego DOES care about the child and the pain and suffering. I agree with that. my whole point was that if a docter planted a rat up your butt in surgery without your permision, you should get the option to remove it. Mainly because your rights where violated first, and the one who violated the rights of the rat is the doctor. I think the same thing goes with rapiests. I just think its worth to menchin simply beause it's the only thing that can't activly be prevented. Which my post was attempting to show that.
So, on that note, I don't think rape is ever a case that precludes the right to abort. There's always more than one way to look at things, and in the case that a woman gets raped and is impregnated as a result, she can either look at the pending child as a curse or a blessing that came from a bad circumstance. Regardless, it's not the child's fault that the rape occurred, so why kill the innocent? Anyway, that sums up my views on that.
I think, like you said earlier, the human mind is very complex and deep. Add in PTSD and that alone makes it so that in SOME cases it's impossible. You can change your attidute and work through PTSD, but ultimately like a vietnam vet your going to get triggers. If a car back blows or if her kids makes the same angry face he did. Yes sadly that isn't a made up comparision. I think rape though has a completely seperate place on this issue. As well as retards. If you COULDN'T not didnt but COULDNT make a choice,wether thats because your mentally retarded or if it was forced against your will, you should have the option. I think there is a vast difference between a stupid teen not thinking and a retard who doensn't understand what a circle is.
Shade
04-10-2008, 09:26 PM
And if she chose to carry on with the pregnancy.... how would that make you feel? She's 12, don't forget, and has been raped. Would you not try to atleast talk her into a termination? Would you still consider it murder?
Thats a really fucking good arguement right there. I think again it would depend on the reasons. If she wanted to keep it for religious beliefs, or personal beliefs or because it is the life she is creating inside her, then yea i would hold her hand through it, but show her what she would have to do. I wouldn't talk the girl out of it, i would educate the fuck out of her and get her to an understanding and let her make her own choice. Let he understand the freedom she would have by aborting but also the pain and trama, and the work and hell of having a child at 12, but hopefully the joy of it as well. I think she would have to make her own choice, because if anyone made one for her, she would end up hating herself.
Thats a really fucking good arguement right there. I think again it would depend on the reasons. If she wanted to keep it for religious beliefs, or personal beliefs or because it is the life she is creating inside her, then yea i would hold her hand through it, but show her what she would have to do. I wouldn't talk the girl out of it, i would educate the fuck out of her and get her to an understanding and let her make her own choice. Let he understand the freedom she would have by aborting but also the pain and trama, and the work and hell of having a child at 12, but hopefully the joy of it as well. I think she would have to make her own choice, because if anyone made one for her, she would end up hating herself.
lianhan_shee
04-24-2008, 11:15 AM
I am against abortion unless of the circumstances of rape and incest or there is a medical reason for the pregnancy to be terminated due to it causing death to the mother or the child.
I have 2 daughters. One is 17 and the other is 7. If anyone raped either one of them..
1. Id kill the bastard.
2. Id have them terminate the pregnancy.
reason being they didnt ask for it..
there is no way in fucking hell I am going to educate my 7 year old on why she should have a child at 7 or 12 .I call bullshit. Her own choice haha!!! fuck that.. no CHILD should have to make that descision. She should be able to go to school play with her friends and not have to go home to take care of a child that she didnt ask for... really think about what you said...
"Let her understand the freedom she would have by aborting but also the pain and trama, and the work and hell of having a child at 12, but hopefully the joy of it as well. I think she would have to make her own choice, because if anyone made one for her, she would end up hating herself."
hating herself for what... not wanting to have a child from a man that forced hisself on her innocence what the fuck ever!!!
and who is going to take care of the child, she isnt . she has school, she cant work, ahh there we go lets get on welfare. yeah, have the government take care of her and her child *that she didnt ask for* or better yet have the parents of the child that was raped care for it yeah that sounds better ...
amazing!!!!
here look at this and think if it were your daughter what would you do
http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/medina.asp
and once again my theories are correct..lol
I have 2 daughters. One is 17 and the other is 7. If anyone raped either one of them..
1. Id kill the bastard.
2. Id have them terminate the pregnancy.
reason being they didnt ask for it..
there is no way in fucking hell I am going to educate my 7 year old on why she should have a child at 7 or 12 .I call bullshit. Her own choice haha!!! fuck that.. no CHILD should have to make that descision. She should be able to go to school play with her friends and not have to go home to take care of a child that she didnt ask for... really think about what you said...
"Let her understand the freedom she would have by aborting but also the pain and trama, and the work and hell of having a child at 12, but hopefully the joy of it as well. I think she would have to make her own choice, because if anyone made one for her, she would end up hating herself."
hating herself for what... not wanting to have a child from a man that forced hisself on her innocence what the fuck ever!!!
and who is going to take care of the child, she isnt . she has school, she cant work, ahh there we go lets get on welfare. yeah, have the government take care of her and her child *that she didnt ask for* or better yet have the parents of the child that was raped care for it yeah that sounds better ...
amazing!!!!
here look at this and think if it were your daughter what would you do
http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/medina.asp
and once again my theories are correct..lol
Shade
04-24-2008, 05:30 PM
I am against abortion unless of the circumstances of rape and incest or there is a medical reason for the pregnancy to be terminated due to it causing death to the mother or the child.
I have 2 daughters. One is 17 and the other is 7. If anyone raped either one of them..
1. Id kill the bastard.
2. Id have them terminate the pregnancy.
reason being they didnt ask for it..
there is no way in fucking hell I am going to educate my 7 year old on why she should have a child at 7 or 12 .I call bullshit. Her own choice haha!!! fuck that.. no CHILD should have to make that descision. She should be able to go to school play with her friends and not have to go home to take care of a child that she didnt ask for... really think about what you said...
\"Let her understand the freedom she would have by aborting but also the pain and trama, and the work and hell of having a child at 12, but hopefully the joy of it as well. I think she would have to make her own choice, because if anyone made one for her, she would end up hating herself.\"
hating herself for what... not wanting to have a child from a man that forced hisself on her innocence what the fuck ever!!!
and who is going to take care of the child, she isnt . she has school, she cant work, ahh there we go lets get on welfare. yeah, have the government take care of her and her child *that she didnt ask for* or better yet have the parents of the child that was raped care for it yeah that sounds better ...
amazing!!!!
here look at this and think if it were your daughter what would you do
http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/medina.asp
and once again my theories are correct..lol
what the quote was saying was that i would talk it though with them. you force a child to do something with their body, its never a good thing. Sure a 7 yearold i would take a more "you really cant do this on your own" but a 16 yearold girl i would let her atleast come up with a reasonable argument. Your right she didnt ask for it, and neither did you. But its still her body. Forcing her to abort it or give birth either way has the same princeable as rape. Lets take someones body and make them do what we want to, reguardless of how they think or feel. I'm not against abortion by any means, but as a guy i get the luxary of never having to make that choice. All i think i would feel right about doing is advising.
I have 2 daughters. One is 17 and the other is 7. If anyone raped either one of them..
1. Id kill the bastard.
2. Id have them terminate the pregnancy.
reason being they didnt ask for it..
there is no way in fucking hell I am going to educate my 7 year old on why she should have a child at 7 or 12 .I call bullshit. Her own choice haha!!! fuck that.. no CHILD should have to make that descision. She should be able to go to school play with her friends and not have to go home to take care of a child that she didnt ask for... really think about what you said...
\"Let her understand the freedom she would have by aborting but also the pain and trama, and the work and hell of having a child at 12, but hopefully the joy of it as well. I think she would have to make her own choice, because if anyone made one for her, she would end up hating herself.\"
hating herself for what... not wanting to have a child from a man that forced hisself on her innocence what the fuck ever!!!
and who is going to take care of the child, she isnt . she has school, she cant work, ahh there we go lets get on welfare. yeah, have the government take care of her and her child *that she didnt ask for* or better yet have the parents of the child that was raped care for it yeah that sounds better ...
amazing!!!!
here look at this and think if it were your daughter what would you do
http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/medina.asp
and once again my theories are correct..lol
what the quote was saying was that i would talk it though with them. you force a child to do something with their body, its never a good thing. Sure a 7 yearold i would take a more "you really cant do this on your own" but a 16 yearold girl i would let her atleast come up with a reasonable argument. Your right she didnt ask for it, and neither did you. But its still her body. Forcing her to abort it or give birth either way has the same princeable as rape. Lets take someones body and make them do what we want to, reguardless of how they think or feel. I'm not against abortion by any means, but as a guy i get the luxary of never having to make that choice. All i think i would feel right about doing is advising.
lianhan_shee
04-24-2008, 09:38 PM
do you have children?
CrAnIuM
04-24-2008, 09:42 PM
do you have children?
Why does that matter ?
I have two kids ( well .. two that I claim ) and I'm STILL 100% in favor of abortion and mandatory sterilization.
Why does that matter ?
I have two kids ( well .. two that I claim ) and I'm STILL 100% in favor of abortion and mandatory sterilization.
lianhan_shee
04-24-2008, 09:46 PM
that is what i am saying he was saying that the child should have a choice if she were raped I think not
Shade
04-25-2008, 01:10 PM
that is what i am saying he was saying that the child should have a choice if she were raped I think not
i've raised a kid for 4 years. And pretty much raised a bunch of other kids that had neglectful parents. I think at 5-6 that can't make a concious choice. I think at 17 it's a differnt story. It seems easy for girls to fall inlove with the idea of keeping the baby. i think though, at 13 and up, if you did a good job raising them, there is enough respect to have an honest and open discussion about it, and atleast come to an understanding. i fucking HATED my mom during my teenage years. I knew that when important shit came up, and we talked about it, i would be talked to as an equal. I think having a baby, is a chance to make a huge fucking mistake either way. I still think it's there mistake to make. It's a life changing one, sure, but you cannot control children. You can make them fear you, you can try to get them to respect you, you can be friends with them, there are lots of parenting approaches, but none of them ever ends up being able to control the kid, except for locking em up. And the ones that are locked up always have severe shit wrong with them. Anyways, you never know how your going to deal with this shit either though. I know there are some things i thought i'd do and others i wouldn't when raising a kid, and it was exactly how i imagened it. It was still one of the best expierences.
i've raised a kid for 4 years. And pretty much raised a bunch of other kids that had neglectful parents. I think at 5-6 that can't make a concious choice. I think at 17 it's a differnt story. It seems easy for girls to fall inlove with the idea of keeping the baby. i think though, at 13 and up, if you did a good job raising them, there is enough respect to have an honest and open discussion about it, and atleast come to an understanding. i fucking HATED my mom during my teenage years. I knew that when important shit came up, and we talked about it, i would be talked to as an equal. I think having a baby, is a chance to make a huge fucking mistake either way. I still think it's there mistake to make. It's a life changing one, sure, but you cannot control children. You can make them fear you, you can try to get them to respect you, you can be friends with them, there are lots of parenting approaches, but none of them ever ends up being able to control the kid, except for locking em up. And the ones that are locked up always have severe shit wrong with them. Anyways, you never know how your going to deal with this shit either though. I know there are some things i thought i'd do and others i wouldn't when raising a kid, and it was exactly how i imagened it. It was still one of the best expierences.
4nik8
04-25-2008, 11:20 PM
i fucking HATED my mom during my teenage years. I knew that when important shit came up, and we talked about it, i would be talked to as an equal.
How the hell does that work?
How the hell does that work?
MoonChild69
04-25-2008, 11:22 PM
i've raised a kid for 4 years. And pretty much raised a bunch of other kids that had neglectful parents. I think at 5-6 that can't make a concious choice. I think at 17 it's a differnt story. It seems easy for girls to fall inlove with the idea of keeping the baby. i think though, at 13 and up, if you did a good job raising them, there is enough respect to have an honest and open discussion about it, and atleast come to an understanding. i fucking HATED my mom during my teenage years. I knew that when important shit came up, and we talked about it, i would be talked to as an equal. I think having a baby, is a chance to make a huge fucking mistake either way. I still think it's there mistake to make. It's a life changing one, sure, but you cannot control children. You can make them fear you, you can try to get them to respect you, you can be friends with them, there are lots of parenting approaches, but none of them ever ends up being able to control the kid, except for locking em up. And the ones that are locked up always have severe shit wrong with them. Anyways, you never know how your going to deal with this shit either though. I know there are some things i thought i'd do and others i wouldn't when raising a kid, and it was exactly how i imagened it. It was still one of the best expierences.
I agree with you...:khi7h:
I agree with you...:khi7h:
4nik8
04-26-2008, 01:05 AM
I guess I agree with the majority here.
Women should have the right to abortion under certain circumstances. Rape/incest, problematic/dangerous pregnancy. I don't agree with women who use abortion as a means of birth control.
I also don't agree with minors being able to have an abortion without parental consent. How the hell did this one even come into play? Ever try taking a niece or nephew to the hospital? They will not touch the kid until they get a parents consent so how can a kid walk into a clinic and have surgery performed?
I would like to add a little twist though.
Far too often, men are suckered into becoming unwitting fathers by unscrupulous women.
Some women lie about being on the pill or stop taking it during the relationship in order to get pregnant when the man has stated he wants no kids. Some women stoop so far as to make use of the discarded condom.
If it's legal for a woman to terminate her responsibilities as a mother when she sees fit, whether the father agrees or not...a man should be able to terminate his responsibilities just as easily. I think the playing field should be leveled a bit there.
Women should have the right to abortion under certain circumstances. Rape/incest, problematic/dangerous pregnancy. I don't agree with women who use abortion as a means of birth control.
I also don't agree with minors being able to have an abortion without parental consent. How the hell did this one even come into play? Ever try taking a niece or nephew to the hospital? They will not touch the kid until they get a parents consent so how can a kid walk into a clinic and have surgery performed?
I would like to add a little twist though.
Far too often, men are suckered into becoming unwitting fathers by unscrupulous women.
Some women lie about being on the pill or stop taking it during the relationship in order to get pregnant when the man has stated he wants no kids. Some women stoop so far as to make use of the discarded condom.
If it's legal for a woman to terminate her responsibilities as a mother when she sees fit, whether the father agrees or not...a man should be able to terminate his responsibilities just as easily. I think the playing field should be leveled a bit there.
HerCUNTness
04-26-2008, 05:46 AM
What are your views on abortion. As reguards to political framing, the outside influences, and lies and exageration from both sides, and the general issue itself?
I think that its a choice. I don't think that the state , govt. or any institutional body should make a decision about what one does with their own body.
I don't like the idea of a 7 monther getting an abortion......and the weed whacker process in use for abortions . It sickens me, causes my tummy to hurt just thinking about it . .
Every story is different, every to-be-mom( or not-to-be-mom) has her reasons.
I think that its a choice. I don't think that the state , govt. or any institutional body should make a decision about what one does with their own body.
I don't like the idea of a 7 monther getting an abortion......and the weed whacker process in use for abortions . It sickens me, causes my tummy to hurt just thinking about it . .
Every story is different, every to-be-mom( or not-to-be-mom) has her reasons.
HerCUNTness
04-26-2008, 05:50 AM
Far too often, men are suckered into becoming unwitting fathers by unscrupulous women.
Some women lie about being on the pill or stop taking it during the relationship in order to get pregnant when the man has stated he wants no kids. Some women stoop so far as to make use of the discarded condom.
If it's legal for a woman to terminate her responsibilities as a mother when she sees fit, whether the father agrees or not...a man should be able to terminate his responsibilities just as easily. I think the playing field should be leveled a bit there.
I can see your point and agree. What about dad rights? The guy gets sucked in and has no choice but to pay.
From what I hear there might be an answer upon the horizon. The FDA is thinking about legalizing the pill for men. It is being used in Europe .Same idea... just the men's version...
Some women lie about being on the pill or stop taking it during the relationship in order to get pregnant when the man has stated he wants no kids. Some women stoop so far as to make use of the discarded condom.
If it's legal for a woman to terminate her responsibilities as a mother when she sees fit, whether the father agrees or not...a man should be able to terminate his responsibilities just as easily. I think the playing field should be leveled a bit there.
I can see your point and agree. What about dad rights? The guy gets sucked in and has no choice but to pay.
From what I hear there might be an answer upon the horizon. The FDA is thinking about legalizing the pill for men. It is being used in Europe .Same idea... just the men's version...
Stormcrow
04-26-2008, 06:02 AM
I can see your point and agree. What about dad rights? The guy gets sucked in and has no choice but to pay.
From what I hear there might be an answer upon the horizon. The FDA is thinking about legalizing the pill for men. It is being used in Europe .Same idea... just the men's version...
:khi1i: Oooooh, I think that is a brilliant idea! Give the guy a little control over birth control.
And, yeah, I think Prick has got it right here. Regulated reproduction should be the law of the land.
From what I hear there might be an answer upon the horizon. The FDA is thinking about legalizing the pill for men. It is being used in Europe .Same idea... just the men's version...
:khi1i: Oooooh, I think that is a brilliant idea! Give the guy a little control over birth control.
And, yeah, I think Prick has got it right here. Regulated reproduction should be the law of the land.
KommieKat
04-26-2008, 09:52 AM
I have not seen it mentioned as of yet (though I may have missed it),
but what of the case where your unborn child has been found to have mental, physical defects?
If a thorough examination has been performed and found, without a doubt, that your unborn has brain deficiency/damage, resulting in retardation, resulting in you having to spend the rest of your life taking care of them, would you not abort?
I am talking about a severe case of brain damage or physical defects.
Why give yourself and your new born a miserable life when you can abort and try again?
I'm not trying to make this sound unemotional nor easy to decide and carry out in any sense.
but what of the case where your unborn child has been found to have mental, physical defects?
If a thorough examination has been performed and found, without a doubt, that your unborn has brain deficiency/damage, resulting in retardation, resulting in you having to spend the rest of your life taking care of them, would you not abort?
I am talking about a severe case of brain damage or physical defects.
Why give yourself and your new born a miserable life when you can abort and try again?
I'm not trying to make this sound unemotional nor easy to decide and carry out in any sense.
4nik8
04-26-2008, 10:50 AM
I can see your point and agree. What about dad rights? The guy gets sucked in and has no choice but to pay.
From what I hear there might be an answer upon the horizon. The FDA is thinking about legalizing the pill for men. It is being used in Europe .Same idea... just the men's version...
Hahaha. I LOVE it.
Being fixed is a solution that some men and women don't want to go through for fear that they may later want a child. It's still possible to do it but way more expensive than just going off the pill.
On a side note...imagine the look on the woman's face when trying to trap a man and finds out that he's sterile? I read a blog about that happening before....gotta see if I can find it. Funny read.
From what I hear there might be an answer upon the horizon. The FDA is thinking about legalizing the pill for men. It is being used in Europe .Same idea... just the men's version...
Hahaha. I LOVE it.
Being fixed is a solution that some men and women don't want to go through for fear that they may later want a child. It's still possible to do it but way more expensive than just going off the pill.
On a side note...imagine the look on the woman's face when trying to trap a man and finds out that he's sterile? I read a blog about that happening before....gotta see if I can find it. Funny read.
Cúchulainn
04-26-2008, 11:57 AM
I'm all for abortion. I think its a great idea.
Gotta feed Ethiopia somehow.
Gotta feed Ethiopia somehow.
mcsmc
04-26-2008, 02:42 PM
Hahaha. I LOVE it.
Being fixed is a solution that some men and women don't want to go through for fear that they may later want a child. It's still possible to do it but way more expensive than just going off the pill.
On a side note...imagine the look on the woman's face when trying to trap a man and finds out that he's sterile? I read a blog about that happening before....gotta see if I can find it. Funny read.
Haha, find it... I totally want that link.
Being fixed is a solution that some men and women don't want to go through for fear that they may later want a child. It's still possible to do it but way more expensive than just going off the pill.
On a side note...imagine the look on the woman's face when trying to trap a man and finds out that he's sterile? I read a blog about that happening before....gotta see if I can find it. Funny read.
Haha, find it... I totally want that link.
HerCUNTness
05-01-2008, 09:34 PM
I'm all for abortion. I think its a great idea.
Gotta feed Ethiopia somehow.
thats old..... that was said a million years ago in a christian chat, just to fuck with them. The quote was more like...
abortions are bad.... there are starving people in far off countries....... why waste the meat.
Gotta feed Ethiopia somehow.
thats old..... that was said a million years ago in a christian chat, just to fuck with them. The quote was more like...
abortions are bad.... there are starving people in far off countries....... why waste the meat.
SlimSkeeter
10-15-2009, 09:10 AM
Well...I was going to create this thread, but lo and behold its already here from forever ago.
My views...I'm not fond of the idea of abortion, really, but it should be an option. There are many circumstances that I can see for doing it ranging from rape to various health reasons.
I am NOT an advocate of abortion as a form of birth control, though. Being an adult means taking responsibility for your actions and there are SEVERAL other choices. IUD, diaphragms, The Pill in all its various forms....CONDOMS...granted none of them are absolutely foolproof, but at least you are taking steps. Being an adult sucks, it means you are held accountable. I'd probably go so far as to say that if a woman is just going to fuck around, unprotected, and keep getting preggo, that she should just be fucking sterilized and be done with it. Accidents happen....I'm proof! But again, being an adult means you have responsibility, and not knowing the facts when they are readily available is no excuse. I highly doubt that anyone over the age of 12 doesn't know where babies come from.
So, do I agree with abortion...No. Then again, I'm a guy, what do I know? I would rather it be done safely, though, when required. So yeah, keep it as an option, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
My views...I'm not fond of the idea of abortion, really, but it should be an option. There are many circumstances that I can see for doing it ranging from rape to various health reasons.
I am NOT an advocate of abortion as a form of birth control, though. Being an adult means taking responsibility for your actions and there are SEVERAL other choices. IUD, diaphragms, The Pill in all its various forms....CONDOMS...granted none of them are absolutely foolproof, but at least you are taking steps. Being an adult sucks, it means you are held accountable. I'd probably go so far as to say that if a woman is just going to fuck around, unprotected, and keep getting preggo, that she should just be fucking sterilized and be done with it. Accidents happen....I'm proof! But again, being an adult means you have responsibility, and not knowing the facts when they are readily available is no excuse. I highly doubt that anyone over the age of 12 doesn't know where babies come from.
So, do I agree with abortion...No. Then again, I'm a guy, what do I know? I would rather it be done safely, though, when required. So yeah, keep it as an option, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
kinper
10-15-2009, 12:52 PM
abortion is mureder ..........................period
urateup
10-15-2009, 06:18 PM
I am pro-choice. I do understand what all the pro-life people have to say about it but the fact of the matter is an unwanted pregnancy is a bad thing. The kid suffers worse then the parent could ever dream of.
I do agree that people should use precaution first and only turn to the abortion as the last measure. I like the idea better of adoption. Let the parent turn over the child to the hospital and not use the dumpster. But let's be real here and know not everyone on this planet is smart enough to think of what is best for the child.
I do agree that people should use precaution first and only turn to the abortion as the last measure. I like the idea better of adoption. Let the parent turn over the child to the hospital and not use the dumpster. But let's be real here and know not everyone on this planet is smart enough to think of what is best for the child.
CrAnIuM
10-15-2009, 06:25 PM
As I said earlier I am 100% pro, happy dance in favor or Aborting an unplanned for, unwanted fetus.
And to go further ...
If the technology were available, I would like to see the Abortion clinics be relabeled as RECYCLE clinics :
Step one : Remove fetus in a state where it can be grown artificially in a "tank" of some sort.
Step two : Destroy brain areas responsible for cognition and awareness.
Step Three: Allow fetus to grow to an age where all organs can be harvested.
Everybody wins.
And to go further ...
If the technology were available, I would like to see the Abortion clinics be relabeled as RECYCLE clinics :
Step one : Remove fetus in a state where it can be grown artificially in a "tank" of some sort.
Step two : Destroy brain areas responsible for cognition and awareness.
Step Three: Allow fetus to grow to an age where all organs can be harvested.
Everybody wins.
SlimSkeeter
10-15-2009, 07:05 PM
^^^ That turns my stomach, but I'm having a hard time separating my "good" catholic upbringing from my higher morality.
It would probably do no end of good, in truth. Same with stem cell research.
Though I still say people need to grow the fuck up before they start fucking. BUT knowing that isn't going to happen, and knowing that abortion IS a "viable" alternative to being responsible....
Yeah....Pricks idea could probably help a lot of people...
It would probably do no end of good, in truth. Same with stem cell research.
Though I still say people need to grow the fuck up before they start fucking. BUT knowing that isn't going to happen, and knowing that abortion IS a "viable" alternative to being responsible....
Yeah....Pricks idea could probably help a lot of people...
Sittingrumpy
10-15-2009, 07:14 PM
All I am saying and none of you will be shocked... I am 100% anti abortion (did not say pro life)
SlimSkeeter
10-15-2009, 07:15 PM
All I am saying and none of you will be shocked... I am 100% anti abortion (did not say pro life)
How the fuck are you completely anti-abortion and NOT pro life?
How the fuck are you completely anti-abortion and NOT pro life?
Sittingrumpy
10-15-2009, 07:17 PM
How the fuck are you completely anti-abortion and NOT pro life?
Because I also agree 100% with the death penalty; so to say I am pro life would be a lie.
Because I also agree 100% with the death penalty; so to say I am pro life would be a lie.
Llamageddon
10-24-2009, 09:18 AM
I'm pro-choice.
If a woman accidentally gets pregnant but does not feel she is ready for a baby, she should not keep a baby she feels she is unready for. It won't help the childs development and it won't help her. When a woman is ready for a child, it will have a better start in life than if the mother was unprepared.
If a woman accidentally gets pregnant but does not feel she is ready for a baby, she should not keep a baby she feels she is unready for. It won't help the childs development and it won't help her. When a woman is ready for a child, it will have a better start in life than if the mother was unprepared.
Lethal_Lefty
11-02-2009, 06:07 PM
I'm pro choice I suppose. I have no problem with abortions during the first trimester of pregnancy.
What really needs to happen though is that everyone should have a reversible procedure performed on them at birth to keep them from being able to reproduce. Then, once you are old enough and financially stable enough to pay to have the procedure reversed you're free to have a child...
...that's what would happen in my perfect "Big Brother World."
What really needs to happen though is that everyone should have a reversible procedure performed on them at birth to keep them from being able to reproduce. Then, once you are old enough and financially stable enough to pay to have the procedure reversed you're free to have a child...
...that's what would happen in my perfect "Big Brother World."
Guess Who
11-02-2009, 10:26 PM
My opinion on abortion is situational i guess you would say. If a women gets pregnant by rape or something and she isn't going to raise the child properly as a result of that happening. Then abortion is a viable option.
But if she choose to sleep with a guy knowing she could get pregnant, and not use protection. It is not okay to get an abortion. You knew the risk when you slept with the guy.
But if she choose to sleep with a guy knowing she could get pregnant, and not use protection. It is not okay to get an abortion. You knew the risk when you slept with the guy.
Lethal_Lefty
11-02-2009, 11:53 PM
My opinion on abortion is situational i guess you would say. If a women gets pregnant by rape or something and she isn't going to raise the child properly as a result of that happening. Then abortion is a viable option.
But if she choose to sleep with a guy knowing she could get pregnant, and not use protection. It is not okay to get an abortion. You knew the risk when you slept with the guy.
So you'd rather subject some poor innocent child to a potential life of misfortune?
Forcing someone to have a kid that they neither want nor can afford to properly care might make you sleep better at night because you "morally" did the right thing, but it's not going to help that kid who is sleeping in a roach infested one bedroom apartment wondering whether or not his mother is going to be able to put food on the table for him or afford to buy him clothes.
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin...
But if she choose to sleep with a guy knowing she could get pregnant, and not use protection. It is not okay to get an abortion. You knew the risk when you slept with the guy.
So you'd rather subject some poor innocent child to a potential life of misfortune?
Forcing someone to have a kid that they neither want nor can afford to properly care might make you sleep better at night because you "morally" did the right thing, but it's not going to help that kid who is sleeping in a roach infested one bedroom apartment wondering whether or not his mother is going to be able to put food on the table for him or afford to buy him clothes.
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin...
Josie
11-03-2009, 05:14 AM
There's this little stretch of road that happens to have an abortion clinic on it.... that I happen to drive by often. All the morons that walk around with their signs and intentionally step out in the road/stare you down at the stop light/purposely stand in front of your car for too long after the light turns green...
Need to die. Should have been aborted. Should be strapped with explosives and dropped over enemy territory.
I really do not care what their opinion of aborting fetuses is. I don't give a damn.
However, I DO give a flying fuck about what they are doing to the women who are already making a tough decision to go ahead and abort their fetus. No matter how callous a woman may appear about her abortion, it affects her. To have some moronic assholes flouncing about outside, telling her how horrible she is just creates problems. You can never truly know someone's situation unless you ARE that person, so to sit around judging her for making what is probably the best decision, all while making her feel like a worthless sack of shit is so unacceptable.
I should start carrying some sort of harmless object to chunk at them as I drive by. lawl. I almost hit one by accident the other day. For a whole half second, I thought about not applying the brakes.
Heh. It would be so awesome if I could get a group of people together to carry their own lil homemade signs of those fags, photochopped onto some pics of middle aged, saggy titted/balled nude people.
/rant
Need to die. Should have been aborted. Should be strapped with explosives and dropped over enemy territory.
I really do not care what their opinion of aborting fetuses is. I don't give a damn.
However, I DO give a flying fuck about what they are doing to the women who are already making a tough decision to go ahead and abort their fetus. No matter how callous a woman may appear about her abortion, it affects her. To have some moronic assholes flouncing about outside, telling her how horrible she is just creates problems. You can never truly know someone's situation unless you ARE that person, so to sit around judging her for making what is probably the best decision, all while making her feel like a worthless sack of shit is so unacceptable.
I should start carrying some sort of harmless object to chunk at them as I drive by. lawl. I almost hit one by accident the other day. For a whole half second, I thought about not applying the brakes.
Heh. It would be so awesome if I could get a group of people together to carry their own lil homemade signs of those fags, photochopped onto some pics of middle aged, saggy titted/balled nude people.
/rant
NiBBler
11-03-2009, 05:44 AM
You can never truly know someone's situation unless you ARE that person, so to sit around judging her for making what is probably the best decision, all while making her feel like a worthless sack of shit is so unacceptable.
Agreed.
It's always much easier to judge and to talk shit than to show compassion or understanding.
Agreed.
It's always much easier to judge and to talk shit than to show compassion or understanding.
Guess Who
11-03-2009, 11:06 PM
So you'd rather subject some poor innocent child to a potential life of misfortune?
Forcing someone to have a kid that they neither want nor can afford to properly care might make you sleep better at night because you "morally" did the right thing, but it's not going to help that kid who is sleeping in a roach infested one bedroom apartment wondering whether or not his mother is going to be able to put food on the table for him or afford to buy him clothes.
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin...
They can always adopt the child if they can't afford it. But i guess if a woman wants to get an abortion. It is her choice. There is nothing that me or anyone else can do to stop her.
Forcing someone to have a kid that they neither want nor can afford to properly care might make you sleep better at night because you "morally" did the right thing, but it's not going to help that kid who is sleeping in a roach infested one bedroom apartment wondering whether or not his mother is going to be able to put food on the table for him or afford to buy him clothes.
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin...
They can always adopt the child if they can't afford it. But i guess if a woman wants to get an abortion. It is her choice. There is nothing that me or anyone else can do to stop her.
Mr. D
11-04-2009, 01:14 AM
I'm all for it.
If they're allowing cosmetic surgery for teenagers, gay couples to get married and adopt, politicians to get away with fraud and the nation of New Zealand to exist, why can't they allow abortions?
Someone close to me had one after an unsavoury incident with an ex who was drug-fucked and abusive. She's turned out fine so far.
Next thing you know the pro-life people will be banning masturbation because of the millions of little sperm being left to die a slow painful death in the jocks of a pimpy 14 year old who spends most of his free time with a Best & Less catalogue in his bedroom with the door locked.
If they're allowing cosmetic surgery for teenagers, gay couples to get married and adopt, politicians to get away with fraud and the nation of New Zealand to exist, why can't they allow abortions?
Someone close to me had one after an unsavoury incident with an ex who was drug-fucked and abusive. She's turned out fine so far.
Next thing you know the pro-life people will be banning masturbation because of the millions of little sperm being left to die a slow painful death in the jocks of a pimpy 14 year old who spends most of his free time with a Best & Less catalogue in his bedroom with the door locked.
FizzyYumPop
11-04-2009, 02:20 AM
I'm all for it.
If they're allowing cosmetic surgery for teenagers, gay couples to get married and adopt, politicians to get away with fraud and the nation of New Zealand to exist, why can't they allow abortions?
Because the gay couples need babies to adopt, duh.
If they're allowing cosmetic surgery for teenagers, gay couples to get married and adopt, politicians to get away with fraud and the nation of New Zealand to exist, why can't they allow abortions?
Because the gay couples need babies to adopt, duh.
NiBBler
11-04-2009, 04:01 AM
Next thing you know the pro-life people will be banning masturbation because of the millions of little sperm being left to die a slow painful death
Nah... it will never happen. Men do no wrong. A man and woman can both do many things, but only the woman is held accountable.
Double standards again...
Nah... it will never happen. Men do no wrong. A man and woman can both do many things, but only the woman is held accountable.
Double standards again...
Josie
11-04-2009, 04:24 AM
Next thing you know the pro-life people will be banning masturbation because of the millions of little sperm being left to die ...
No kidding. The bible agrees. Wasteth not the spermeth. Must enter vagina... at all costs. No anal, little boys!
Haha, and from there, you could take it to that the woman was irresponsible in wasting even the sperm lobbed into her if she consented to sex while not fertile.
Christians, man... they're an especially sore spot for me at the moment.
:arghh:
No kidding. The bible agrees. Wasteth not the spermeth. Must enter vagina... at all costs. No anal, little boys!
Haha, and from there, you could take it to that the woman was irresponsible in wasting even the sperm lobbed into her if she consented to sex while not fertile.
Christians, man... they're an especially sore spot for me at the moment.
:arghh:
Llamageddon
11-04-2009, 10:14 AM
No kidding. The bible agrees. Wasteth not the spermeth. Must enter vagina... at all costs. No anal, little boys!
Although... millions of sperm are potentially going to fertilise the egg. However only one will. Aren't all the others wasted?
The Christians much be racking their brains to think of a way around that!
Although... millions of sperm are potentially going to fertilise the egg. However only one will. Aren't all the others wasted?
The Christians much be racking their brains to think of a way around that!
CrAnIuM
11-04-2009, 10:51 AM
Although... millions of sperm are potentially going to fertilise the egg. However only one will. Aren't all the others wasted?
The Christians much be racking their brains to think of a way around that!
Not really.
In my estimation religion and education is like oil and water.
Therefore not many bible thumpers will be 'thinking' that problem through at all.
It's God's will don't ya know ...
The Christians much be racking their brains to think of a way around that!
Not really.
In my estimation religion and education is like oil and water.
Therefore not many bible thumpers will be 'thinking' that problem through at all.
It's God's will don't ya know ...
SlimSkeeter
11-04-2009, 11:10 AM
Although... millions of sperm are potentially going to fertilise the egg. However only one will. Aren't all the others wasted?
The Christians much be racking their brains to think of a way around that!
not entirely...takes several "attacking" the egg to weaken the membrane enough that a sperm cell can penetrate...
Still...Christians seem to always want to have their cake and eat it too. But thats for another thread, I suppose.
The Christians much be racking their brains to think of a way around that!
not entirely...takes several "attacking" the egg to weaken the membrane enough that a sperm cell can penetrate...
Still...Christians seem to always want to have their cake and eat it too. But thats for another thread, I suppose.
SlimSkeeter
11-04-2009, 11:13 AM
>_< Goddamn it Prick....stay out of my head!!
Fishypancake
11-04-2009, 11:40 AM
Abortion is a strong word , not to be used lightly....much like rape. It seems anymore you can not even mention your opinion on a simple topic like a persons right to choose without some random religious zealot to come running up to you with literature, and a speech about how wrong you are for even thinking about the word abortion. I think , in the USA anyway, that it should not even be concidered to qualify as any type of wrongfull, or unjust,or illegal thing. This country was founded on a right to choose, and although this is not the only topic that has had a lot of problems upholding these standards it is a big one. Im not saying that vacuuming babys out of teenagers is right, or something to be spoken highly of, but the option should always be avalible as a last resort. Im just saying if everyone in america accually upheld the standards, and principals that they were intended to do in the first place, this country might have worked. Its issues like these [I.E.gay rights, abortion , Jessie Jackson] that eat away at the basic foundation of "the american dream".
....So im pro-choice. Thats just me though.
....So im pro-choice. Thats just me though.
Titty
11-04-2009, 12:58 PM
....So im pro-choice.
And a damn fine walking argument in favor of it, as well.
And a damn fine walking argument in favor of it, as well.
lianhan_shee
11-06-2009, 08:08 PM
ok i am not the spell check nazi but he is around here somewhere. I am against abortion to a certain extent rape, incest and if there is medical reasons why the pregnancy should be terminated, if you spread your legs and not use any protection take care of the spawn that comes from your loins! if you dont want a child health clinics give choices in birth control to prevent such things from happening. gee whiz....
Josie
11-06-2009, 08:35 PM
ok i am not the spell check nazi but he is around here somewhere. I am against abortion to a certain extent rape, incest and if there is medical reasons why the pregnancy should be terminated, if you spread your legs and not use any protection take care of the spawn that comes from your loins! if you dont want a child health clinics give choices in birth control to prevent such things from happening. gee whiz....
Because all birth control is 100% ? Nah, that's bullshit. I was headed off to college in Ohio when I got pregnant with my first child. We had always used condoms. One broke. One time. Pregnant.
If I had wanted to have an abortion in the interest of excusing myself from ties to an abusive, redneck family and having a chance at a great career...
what would you say then?
Because all birth control is 100% ? Nah, that's bullshit. I was headed off to college in Ohio when I got pregnant with my first child. We had always used condoms. One broke. One time. Pregnant.
If I had wanted to have an abortion in the interest of excusing myself from ties to an abusive, redneck family and having a chance at a great career...
what would you say then?
lianhan_shee
11-06-2009, 09:24 PM
birth control= close your legs how hard is that.
lianhan_shee
11-06-2009, 09:26 PM
or swallow that is even a better option
Titty
11-06-2009, 09:31 PM
or swallow that is even a better option
^^^ yeah
^^^ yeah
Josie
11-06-2009, 09:43 PM
if you spread your legs and not use any protection take care of the spawn that comes from your loins! if you dont want a child health clinics give choices in birth control to prevent such things from happening. gee whiz....
birth control= close your legs how hard is that.
apparently "child health clinics" offer leg clamps...?
or swallow that is even a better option
^ gem of societal noggin power, right thurr
birth control= close your legs how hard is that.
apparently "child health clinics" offer leg clamps...?
or swallow that is even a better option
^ gem of societal noggin power, right thurr
lianhan_shee
11-09-2009, 04:51 PM
Different forms of birth control are readily available. 100% effective is not having sex at all. not my problem that your condom broke. cant blame the clinics, they give sound advice, its ones choice on taking the advice or not, you should have sued the condom company if it was a big deal. if you didnt want kids shouldnt have had sex. oh well lesson learned. For those of you against abortion here is a situation to ponder what would happen if your 11 year old daughter who has came into her monthly cycle just happens to be molested or raped by family or predator. Will you make her go through the pregnancy? or terminate it. I for one would kill the bastard who did that to my child then have the pregnancy terminated.
perfectlyimperfect
11-09-2009, 07:33 PM
Popping in kind of late to the discussion but nontheless:
I feel like abortion should only be allowed in cases of rape/incest/ or if it would cause health problems for the mother.
It's called birth control ladies and gentlemen. Yes, I said gentlemen as well it is their responsibility too, to not bring unwanted children in the world. If you don't want to have kids there are plenty of options for you. Don't spread your legs ((100% effective here ladies and gents)), get on birth control [and if you don't have the money you can get it at the health clinic for free (and if you don't hav ehte money for birth control you should REALLY think twice before spreading your legs and potentially bringing a child into this world)], wear a condom, pull out (gents), Plan B, the shot, the patch, and surgery.
If you do get pregnant i think you should have to take mandatory parenting classes and be psychiatrically evaluated at one of those thousands of dr.'s appointments they make you go to. That way they can start profiling if you are a fit parental figure. Or you can give up your baby for adoption, you can turn the little person over to any police station, fire department, hospital, and usually any church. There are plenty of people out there who can't have kids and want them, let them have a chance at something they otherwise couldn't have had.
Remember, you make the decisions that bring children into the world. Man up (or woman up) and take some damn responsibility for your actions. The child never ASKED to be brought into this world so you should have the intelligence to do the right thing for it.
I feel like abortion should only be allowed in cases of rape/incest/ or if it would cause health problems for the mother.
It's called birth control ladies and gentlemen. Yes, I said gentlemen as well it is their responsibility too, to not bring unwanted children in the world. If you don't want to have kids there are plenty of options for you. Don't spread your legs ((100% effective here ladies and gents)), get on birth control [and if you don't have the money you can get it at the health clinic for free (and if you don't hav ehte money for birth control you should REALLY think twice before spreading your legs and potentially bringing a child into this world)], wear a condom, pull out (gents), Plan B, the shot, the patch, and surgery.
If you do get pregnant i think you should have to take mandatory parenting classes and be psychiatrically evaluated at one of those thousands of dr.'s appointments they make you go to. That way they can start profiling if you are a fit parental figure. Or you can give up your baby for adoption, you can turn the little person over to any police station, fire department, hospital, and usually any church. There are plenty of people out there who can't have kids and want them, let them have a chance at something they otherwise couldn't have had.
Remember, you make the decisions that bring children into the world. Man up (or woman up) and take some damn responsibility for your actions. The child never ASKED to be brought into this world so you should have the intelligence to do the right thing for it.
lianhan_shee
11-09-2009, 07:47 PM
^^^^^^bravo^^^^^
Josie
11-10-2009, 03:33 PM
I am against abortion to a certain extent rape, incest and if there is medical reasons why the pregnancy should be terminated, if you spread your legs and not use any protection take care of the spawn that comes from your loins!
You appear to be a "in-hind-sighter" type of person. 'Well you did it, get over it and shut the fuck up!" That may work for your loud-mouthed, jaw flapping, *southern* community - however, in the real world, people have sex.
And get pregnant.
And people like you who demand she keep a parasite within her uterus to sap energy from her, her family, baby daddy, tax dollars, and the planet as a whole only cause larger issues.
Abortion! Posh! What a thing. Suckin out fetuses and stuff. Perish the thought. But I bet you're the pissy one when Shaniqua sits around on welfare too, hmm? Tell ya what, let's rewind about 23 years and I'll suck Shaniqua right out her mother's vag FOR you since you're too afraid to get your hands dirty. (But are plenty happy to wet your lips with the drivel you slop out)
birth control= close your legs how hard is that.
Yep. Definitely a holier-than-thou "hind sighter".
"Shoulda closed your legs, bitch! Now you gon have ta step up, change ya life, and be a mommy - that's the consequinces"
But you are paying too. Children to parents who are not ready to be parents do not often take the best path possible. Shaniqua is now not only costing you tax dollars while she sits at home on welfare, smokin' her newports and throwin back a forty...
But her child is now out on the streets, getting in trouble - possibly mugging and raping your daughter. Rapists! Oh dear me.
Take the sprial further: Now you're back at square one if daughter is impregnated by this rapist. You say yourself....
I for one would kill the bastard who did that to my child then have the pregnancy terminated.
Ah yes. Kill the bastard. But not the fetus?
Gem, dear. You are just the shiniest one I ever be dun seen.
not my problem that your condom broke.
Nope. And I can and do take care of my children. I'm here to remind you that aside from people like me who make pretty good moms (in my opinion) and do not sap off government monies, there is a huge demographic of women and men who should NOT be burdened with children, nor should they be forced into such an occupation - seriously, people make that mistake all on their own plenty often.
Why not let them pay for their own abortion? If you must look at it for only your benefit, it would save you time (dealing with their offspring), money (tax money, donation, homeless shelter, food bank, etc.), and heart ache (should your family be an unfortunate recipient of some bad deed).
if you didnt want kids shouldnt have had sex.
Coming from the chica with FOUR children. Jesus, I'm irresponsible as it is at 3. Having more than 2, at a maximum, of children is irresponsible and selfish.
Obviously you need better leg clamps. Clinic. Chop chop.
You appear to be a "in-hind-sighter" type of person. 'Well you did it, get over it and shut the fuck up!" That may work for your loud-mouthed, jaw flapping, *southern* community - however, in the real world, people have sex.
And get pregnant.
And people like you who demand she keep a parasite within her uterus to sap energy from her, her family, baby daddy, tax dollars, and the planet as a whole only cause larger issues.
Abortion! Posh! What a thing. Suckin out fetuses and stuff. Perish the thought. But I bet you're the pissy one when Shaniqua sits around on welfare too, hmm? Tell ya what, let's rewind about 23 years and I'll suck Shaniqua right out her mother's vag FOR you since you're too afraid to get your hands dirty. (But are plenty happy to wet your lips with the drivel you slop out)
birth control= close your legs how hard is that.
Yep. Definitely a holier-than-thou "hind sighter".
"Shoulda closed your legs, bitch! Now you gon have ta step up, change ya life, and be a mommy - that's the consequinces"
But you are paying too. Children to parents who are not ready to be parents do not often take the best path possible. Shaniqua is now not only costing you tax dollars while she sits at home on welfare, smokin' her newports and throwin back a forty...
But her child is now out on the streets, getting in trouble - possibly mugging and raping your daughter. Rapists! Oh dear me.
Take the sprial further: Now you're back at square one if daughter is impregnated by this rapist. You say yourself....
I for one would kill the bastard who did that to my child then have the pregnancy terminated.
Ah yes. Kill the bastard. But not the fetus?
Gem, dear. You are just the shiniest one I ever be dun seen.
not my problem that your condom broke.
Nope. And I can and do take care of my children. I'm here to remind you that aside from people like me who make pretty good moms (in my opinion) and do not sap off government monies, there is a huge demographic of women and men who should NOT be burdened with children, nor should they be forced into such an occupation - seriously, people make that mistake all on their own plenty often.
Why not let them pay for their own abortion? If you must look at it for only your benefit, it would save you time (dealing with their offspring), money (tax money, donation, homeless shelter, food bank, etc.), and heart ache (should your family be an unfortunate recipient of some bad deed).
if you didnt want kids shouldnt have had sex.
Coming from the chica with FOUR children. Jesus, I'm irresponsible as it is at 3. Having more than 2, at a maximum, of children is irresponsible and selfish.
Obviously you need better leg clamps. Clinic. Chop chop.
lianhan_shee
11-10-2009, 04:42 PM
Wow! I am amazed. I do have 4 Children two ex husbands and havent lived off the system. I work take care of them. I did take responsibility for my actions and have 4 great children who themselves arent derilicts of society. I didnt close my legs that wouldnt have been fair to my husband at the time my first 3 were concieved. Hell yeah who doesnt like sex. I for one do. When i was married we made the choice to have children. when we divorced i am the one that takes care of them. now that i am single Hell yeah i have sex protected sex i havent gotten knocked up yet.
1. you say * i demand* i never said such a thing. i could give a rats ass what people do who they fuck and what they breed. not my problem. life goes on wheter or not i say anything.
2. you also didnt read everything yes i said kill the rapist but before that i did say that abortion was ok with me in cases of rape. you should read everything before putting words into my mouth dear.
3. i was married and did want children. gee you should look into me further but oh well its your opinion as i have mine.
1. you say * i demand* i never said such a thing. i could give a rats ass what people do who they fuck and what they breed. not my problem. life goes on wheter or not i say anything.
2. you also didnt read everything yes i said kill the rapist but before that i did say that abortion was ok with me in cases of rape. you should read everything before putting words into my mouth dear.
3. i was married and did want children. gee you should look into me further but oh well its your opinion as i have mine.
perfectlyimperfect
11-10-2009, 05:19 PM
Instead of quoting all of the nonsense mrs/mr whatever Josie said up there i'll just say this is in reference to Josie.
I'm not exactly one of those "in-hind-sighter" type of people but I do believe that what lianhan-shee said was pretty good stuff...for the most part not going to accept all of it. If you take preventative measures you won't end up with a child that you have to deal with and get on government pay and this and that and whatnot for.
Yes, you could just go Fuck every Tom, Dick, and Harry you wanted to and then get an abortion when you get pregnant. But why should you punish an innocent child that never asked to come into this world to begin with for the fact that you can't be a little responsible.
If you don't want the child you should do the responsible thing and give it up for adoption. there are plenty of people in this world that cannot have children that are willing to pay for your hospital bills and even give you more money on top of that for your time and the pains of giving your child to them.
And if you don't want to have kids or if you don't have the money to support them you should do what you need to, to insure that you don't have children in the first place. Condoms, birth control, the shot, IUD. You can get this stuff from the clinic (condoms and the pill that is). People just need to learn to be a little more responsible and realize that there are consequences for their actions.
And this is a jump to another of the subjects, the one where you brought up having more than two kids was irresponsible. I think that is a CROCK OF SHIT. I feel like if you have the money, means, and love the children you can have as many as you can support. When it goes to a point where you can't support them or you can't give the the attention or love that they deservce because you have too many kids then, yes you've been irresponsible.
Abortion is one of the reasons teen pregnancy is so frickin rampant in this damn nation. They think, oh let me just do whatever I want have sex with these guys and if anything happens I can always just get an abotion. Is that something you want to Condone Mrs/Mr Josie???????????? Teenagers going out and having abortions all the time?
Another cause for conern with abortion is that in some cases you can't have children after, either because you've had too many and your insides are fucked or because the surgeon is a dumbshit.
And let's not poke fun at the "southern" community. It's rather rude and quite a ridiculous stereotype.
I think I'm done, sorry if that came off a bit bitchy, not trying to be mean or rude just voicing my opinions.
I'm not exactly one of those "in-hind-sighter" type of people but I do believe that what lianhan-shee said was pretty good stuff...for the most part not going to accept all of it. If you take preventative measures you won't end up with a child that you have to deal with and get on government pay and this and that and whatnot for.
Yes, you could just go Fuck every Tom, Dick, and Harry you wanted to and then get an abortion when you get pregnant. But why should you punish an innocent child that never asked to come into this world to begin with for the fact that you can't be a little responsible.
If you don't want the child you should do the responsible thing and give it up for adoption. there are plenty of people in this world that cannot have children that are willing to pay for your hospital bills and even give you more money on top of that for your time and the pains of giving your child to them.
And if you don't want to have kids or if you don't have the money to support them you should do what you need to, to insure that you don't have children in the first place. Condoms, birth control, the shot, IUD. You can get this stuff from the clinic (condoms and the pill that is). People just need to learn to be a little more responsible and realize that there are consequences for their actions.
And this is a jump to another of the subjects, the one where you brought up having more than two kids was irresponsible. I think that is a CROCK OF SHIT. I feel like if you have the money, means, and love the children you can have as many as you can support. When it goes to a point where you can't support them or you can't give the the attention or love that they deservce because you have too many kids then, yes you've been irresponsible.
Abortion is one of the reasons teen pregnancy is so frickin rampant in this damn nation. They think, oh let me just do whatever I want have sex with these guys and if anything happens I can always just get an abotion. Is that something you want to Condone Mrs/Mr Josie???????????? Teenagers going out and having abortions all the time?
Another cause for conern with abortion is that in some cases you can't have children after, either because you've had too many and your insides are fucked or because the surgeon is a dumbshit.
And let's not poke fun at the "southern" community. It's rather rude and quite a ridiculous stereotype.
I think I'm done, sorry if that came off a bit bitchy, not trying to be mean or rude just voicing my opinions.
Josie
11-10-2009, 06:08 PM
I'm in too much of a happy/giddy mood to properly reply with enough venom at the moment - so I'll skip reading for now and come back later after I've had a nice long chat with an E-2 in connecticut.
Thanks, ladies :)
Thanks, ladies :)
perfectlyimperfect
11-10-2009, 06:09 PM
Josie, I was not trying to be rude. Just stating my opinions and whatnot
SlimSkeeter
11-10-2009, 06:25 PM
Josie, I was not trying to be rude. Just stating my opinions and whatnot
*starts humming the theme to Jaws*
*starts humming the theme to Jaws*
CrAnIuM
11-10-2009, 06:39 PM
Josie, I was not trying to be rude. Just stating my opinions and whatnot
(I remember you as such a sweet tempered girl, rosy cheeks and frilly lace !! )
Anywhoo .. you are not required to be civil or nice to anyone here, the only requirement we have is coherency.
(I remember you as such a sweet tempered girl, rosy cheeks and frilly lace !! )
Anywhoo .. you are not required to be civil or nice to anyone here, the only requirement we have is coherency.
perfectlyimperfect
11-10-2009, 08:19 PM
Yea, I just don't want people to get all worked up about it and whatnot. People get so offended by crap that doesn't matter. Anyway enough of all of that.
NiBBler
11-10-2009, 09:51 PM
(I remember you as such a sweet tempered girl, rosy cheeks and frilly lace !! )
Anywhoo .. you are not required to be civil or nice to anyone here, the only requirement we have is coherency.
You just want to see a bitch fest.
... and of course, we do know that Mrs. Josie can give them one, lol.
Anywhoo .. you are not required to be civil or nice to anyone here, the only requirement we have is coherency.
You just want to see a bitch fest.
... and of course, we do know that Mrs. Josie can give them one, lol.
Josie
11-11-2009, 12:47 AM
Yeah, so I read the slurp-drop-and roll...
LOL @ the disclaimers. If you're going to say something, go on and say it however you feel it wants to come out - but leave out the bullshit about how you're not trying to be rude, step on toes, what have you.
You two... oh man. Slurp, Drop, and Roll indeed!
Yes, you could just go Fuck every Tom, Dick, and Harry you wanted to and then get an abortion when you get pregnant.
Cherry Pie, dear. Have a seat.
Pregnancy and Promiscuity do indeed both start with "p", but they are not the same thing.
Would you agree that pregnancy is a life choice? Life is not perfect (and neither are you, as your name is to imply), shit happens. Life plans and choices don't always line up nice and pretty.
But why should you punish an innocent child that never asked to come into this world to begin with for the fact that you can't be a little responsible.I am responsible. Nope, you weren't talking to me directly, but I'm definitely within the group you are speaking about. If ever there was a candidate for abortion, it was me. Personally, for my own personal use, I'm against it. But I will never sit by and force my morals on someone else making their own decisions in life.
You are punishing a child that didn't ask to be punished, born of whatever race, gender, born into poverty/riches if you force their life on someone. If you cannot see how that is, you'll never see a big picture. Ever.
Just that little, squat picture you've pieced together off in the corner of the real world.
Abortion is one of the reasons teen pregnancy is so frickin rampant in this damn nation.
Do you have stats to back that up? I'd really be interested on what you have.
..or is that just what mommy told you?
They think, oh let me just do whatever I want have sex with these guys and if anything happens I can always just get an abotion. Is that something you want to Condone Mrs/Mr Josie???????????? Teenagers going out and having abortions all the time?
Teen pregnancy and the school of thought that nothing more than abstinence education is needed in schools coincide - and heavily so. Teenagers with rampant hormones and wild curiosity are going to experiment. Without much knowledge on what they are doing and how things work - they get pregnant. It's also to do with being defiant.
Don't have sex.
Fuck you. Who are you to run my life? *goes off and has sex*
The education there is missing. Parents are just as much to blame. They've left sexual education up to the public schooling system. Which is really, really sad.
But to attribute teen pregnancy TO legalized abortion is so naive and is really just flat-out retarded. That is.... unless you can pull up stuff for me to read to the contrary. And I will read it.
What do you intend? To illegalize abortion in clean, sanitary facilities where one might have the option to sue the surgeon who "fucks up" a girl's reproductive organs if he's sloppy...
And have them use herbal, home, and myth remedies for the perceived problem?
Aside from physically digging the fetus out of the womb of the mother, there are not many effective methods. Though, some do work. Therein lies a problem.
If a woman ingests a substance known to be poisonous to fetal growth, she MAY only injure the fetus, causing a deformed, retarded, or otherwise disabled child to be born. Oops. Oh well?
You are happy to sit by and point a fat finger (come on, grow up. figuratively.) at abortion and say it should be taken out of medical facilities... but you do not consider the consequence to that action. You also think you can sit by and decide which scenarios are appropriate, and which are not appropriate.
That's ludicrous. The world does not exist in a sanitized, by the book, bucket. It exists in a muddled mess of of too many humans, fighting for their little bit of space/voice/purpose on this planet.
What about the woman whose life is threatened by her pregnancy?
-check. I'm sure you've got an answer for that
What about the woman whose fetus is severely deformed and will most likely die a painful death shortly after delivery?
-check. I'm sure you have a nice, sanitized answer for that.
But wait! There's more! If you decide to say that the mother should have the option to abort - let me say this. Many children born to women in this very situation go on to live normal, productive lives. <-- evidence that the abortion many women opt for was indeed NOT necessary. ....and then many more do die. and some live and go on to live miserable lives.
What about any case I have not currently thought of?
-check?
Lian: Yes, I understand. Old dog, New tricks. Granny diapers and the like... I put no words in your mouth and quoted you directly. Regardless of the only exceptions you feel should be in place, it should never be your right to choose for someone else.
Perhaps, I haven't quite heavily enough considered the morality of the subject.
Statement: It is amoral to abort a fetus.
Where are you deriving your morality? Is it from your religious affiliation? Touchy area. Touchy subject.
Where does law begin to cross the barrier between morality and order? Is that okay with you? If it is, then you do not subscribe to the values on which our 50 United States were founded.
LOL @ the disclaimers. If you're going to say something, go on and say it however you feel it wants to come out - but leave out the bullshit about how you're not trying to be rude, step on toes, what have you.
You two... oh man. Slurp, Drop, and Roll indeed!
Yes, you could just go Fuck every Tom, Dick, and Harry you wanted to and then get an abortion when you get pregnant.
Cherry Pie, dear. Have a seat.
Pregnancy and Promiscuity do indeed both start with "p", but they are not the same thing.
Would you agree that pregnancy is a life choice? Life is not perfect (and neither are you, as your name is to imply), shit happens. Life plans and choices don't always line up nice and pretty.
But why should you punish an innocent child that never asked to come into this world to begin with for the fact that you can't be a little responsible.I am responsible. Nope, you weren't talking to me directly, but I'm definitely within the group you are speaking about. If ever there was a candidate for abortion, it was me. Personally, for my own personal use, I'm against it. But I will never sit by and force my morals on someone else making their own decisions in life.
You are punishing a child that didn't ask to be punished, born of whatever race, gender, born into poverty/riches if you force their life on someone. If you cannot see how that is, you'll never see a big picture. Ever.
Just that little, squat picture you've pieced together off in the corner of the real world.
Abortion is one of the reasons teen pregnancy is so frickin rampant in this damn nation.
Do you have stats to back that up? I'd really be interested on what you have.
..or is that just what mommy told you?
They think, oh let me just do whatever I want have sex with these guys and if anything happens I can always just get an abotion. Is that something you want to Condone Mrs/Mr Josie???????????? Teenagers going out and having abortions all the time?
Teen pregnancy and the school of thought that nothing more than abstinence education is needed in schools coincide - and heavily so. Teenagers with rampant hormones and wild curiosity are going to experiment. Without much knowledge on what they are doing and how things work - they get pregnant. It's also to do with being defiant.
Don't have sex.
Fuck you. Who are you to run my life? *goes off and has sex*
The education there is missing. Parents are just as much to blame. They've left sexual education up to the public schooling system. Which is really, really sad.
But to attribute teen pregnancy TO legalized abortion is so naive and is really just flat-out retarded. That is.... unless you can pull up stuff for me to read to the contrary. And I will read it.
What do you intend? To illegalize abortion in clean, sanitary facilities where one might have the option to sue the surgeon who "fucks up" a girl's reproductive organs if he's sloppy...
And have them use herbal, home, and myth remedies for the perceived problem?
Aside from physically digging the fetus out of the womb of the mother, there are not many effective methods. Though, some do work. Therein lies a problem.
If a woman ingests a substance known to be poisonous to fetal growth, she MAY only injure the fetus, causing a deformed, retarded, or otherwise disabled child to be born. Oops. Oh well?
You are happy to sit by and point a fat finger (come on, grow up. figuratively.) at abortion and say it should be taken out of medical facilities... but you do not consider the consequence to that action. You also think you can sit by and decide which scenarios are appropriate, and which are not appropriate.
That's ludicrous. The world does not exist in a sanitized, by the book, bucket. It exists in a muddled mess of of too many humans, fighting for their little bit of space/voice/purpose on this planet.
What about the woman whose life is threatened by her pregnancy?
-check. I'm sure you've got an answer for that
What about the woman whose fetus is severely deformed and will most likely die a painful death shortly after delivery?
-check. I'm sure you have a nice, sanitized answer for that.
But wait! There's more! If you decide to say that the mother should have the option to abort - let me say this. Many children born to women in this very situation go on to live normal, productive lives. <-- evidence that the abortion many women opt for was indeed NOT necessary. ....and then many more do die. and some live and go on to live miserable lives.
What about any case I have not currently thought of?
-check?
Lian: Yes, I understand. Old dog, New tricks. Granny diapers and the like... I put no words in your mouth and quoted you directly. Regardless of the only exceptions you feel should be in place, it should never be your right to choose for someone else.
Perhaps, I haven't quite heavily enough considered the morality of the subject.
Statement: It is amoral to abort a fetus.
Where are you deriving your morality? Is it from your religious affiliation? Touchy area. Touchy subject.
Where does law begin to cross the barrier between morality and order? Is that okay with you? If it is, then you do not subscribe to the values on which our 50 United States were founded.
NiBBler
11-11-2009, 05:43 AM
Cherry Pie, dear. Have a seat.
Nice...you sure you're not from the south?
Nice...you sure you're not from the south?
perfectlyimperfect
11-11-2009, 09:54 AM
Okay first off I have no idea what the hell slurp-drop-and roll means. Probably some stupid crap that you would only understand if you were online 24/7 for lack of having a real life.
Secondly, it wasn't bullshit about me not trying to be rude. I know it might be a little hard to wrap your mind around but not everyone wants to start a 'bitch fest' with someone else. I mean, obviously that seems to be YOUR only goal in life, but whatever. If you want to play the game then lets, shall we?
http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html
Sorry that I don't know how to insert spiffy links and whatnot, but again, I do have a little bit of a life and don't have time to go look up the codes or whatever to do it.
Anywhoooo, go have a looksie at that site, it's just the first one that came up when I looked for it. Of course you could actually go to a library, you know the thing with books and magazines and things called references, to find quite a bit of stuff on the matter.
If you look at the statistics on that however, it shows over half of the people who are having abortions are under the age of 25. Most of the abortions performed are to women who are NOT married and who more than likely slept with someone who either it didn't work out or they didn't see each other after. Quite irresponsible to have unprotected sex with these people. Yea, I get that condoms break sometimes, but not THAT MUCH, honestly people.
ONLY 1% of women have abortion because of rape or incest. Why the hell are the other 99% of people doing it? maybe it's the new 'cool' thing to do.
Anyway you can see the statistics read them yourself.
Okay, okay, life doesn't always line up nice and pretty, sometimes your makeup opens in your travel bag and you have black powder everywhere. Sometimes you don't get into the college you want. Sometimes your car breaks down on the way to a job interview. I get it. But, getting pregnant with a baby, especially one you don't want or cannot support, is a little more than a 'bump' in the road.
Okay to the next little segment. Saying you are punishing the child blah blah blah. You wouldn't be punishing the child if you found a foster family for them. I have mentioned this before. Never did I say that you had to keep the baby yourself. There are plenty of people who can't and want to have children. You seem to keep skipping over the fact that I keep saying this. Maybe you know I'm right, but whatever.
Okay the next one I already addressed. And no my momther had nothing to do with it, again rather rude to bring that up. Whatever.
The final one. If you look I said it is ONE of the reasons. I do agree that they need to be better educated and parents need to discuss and handle the situation better.
No I do not intend to "illegalize" abortion, however I do believe it should be regulated better. And whether or not it's illegal there wsill always be backdoor butcher shops because people can't afford the procedure. So don't try and make it out like I'm damning women to go get their shit cut open with rusty knives and whatever.
I'm pretty sure I've already addressed the issue about pregnancy related health issues. The decision should be up to the parents, but then they have to live with the decision that they make. And yes, the child may have a normal life and it may have a shitty one, you just have to play the hand you're dealt once you are here you are the only one who can change it. So one can't blame it on the fact that their mother should have had an abortion blah blah whatever whatever.
I think that's about it.
Secondly, it wasn't bullshit about me not trying to be rude. I know it might be a little hard to wrap your mind around but not everyone wants to start a 'bitch fest' with someone else. I mean, obviously that seems to be YOUR only goal in life, but whatever. If you want to play the game then lets, shall we?
http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html
Sorry that I don't know how to insert spiffy links and whatnot, but again, I do have a little bit of a life and don't have time to go look up the codes or whatever to do it.
Anywhoooo, go have a looksie at that site, it's just the first one that came up when I looked for it. Of course you could actually go to a library, you know the thing with books and magazines and things called references, to find quite a bit of stuff on the matter.
If you look at the statistics on that however, it shows over half of the people who are having abortions are under the age of 25. Most of the abortions performed are to women who are NOT married and who more than likely slept with someone who either it didn't work out or they didn't see each other after. Quite irresponsible to have unprotected sex with these people. Yea, I get that condoms break sometimes, but not THAT MUCH, honestly people.
ONLY 1% of women have abortion because of rape or incest. Why the hell are the other 99% of people doing it? maybe it's the new 'cool' thing to do.
Anyway you can see the statistics read them yourself.
Okay, okay, life doesn't always line up nice and pretty, sometimes your makeup opens in your travel bag and you have black powder everywhere. Sometimes you don't get into the college you want. Sometimes your car breaks down on the way to a job interview. I get it. But, getting pregnant with a baby, especially one you don't want or cannot support, is a little more than a 'bump' in the road.
Okay to the next little segment. Saying you are punishing the child blah blah blah. You wouldn't be punishing the child if you found a foster family for them. I have mentioned this before. Never did I say that you had to keep the baby yourself. There are plenty of people who can't and want to have children. You seem to keep skipping over the fact that I keep saying this. Maybe you know I'm right, but whatever.
Okay the next one I already addressed. And no my momther had nothing to do with it, again rather rude to bring that up. Whatever.
The final one. If you look I said it is ONE of the reasons. I do agree that they need to be better educated and parents need to discuss and handle the situation better.
No I do not intend to "illegalize" abortion, however I do believe it should be regulated better. And whether or not it's illegal there wsill always be backdoor butcher shops because people can't afford the procedure. So don't try and make it out like I'm damning women to go get their shit cut open with rusty knives and whatever.
I'm pretty sure I've already addressed the issue about pregnancy related health issues. The decision should be up to the parents, but then they have to live with the decision that they make. And yes, the child may have a normal life and it may have a shitty one, you just have to play the hand you're dealt once you are here you are the only one who can change it. So one can't blame it on the fact that their mother should have had an abortion blah blah whatever whatever.
I think that's about it.
Josie
11-11-2009, 10:18 AM
Nice...you sure you're not from the south?
Born in Alaska - pretty much grew up in Texas... so... both? :P
Born in Alaska - pretty much grew up in Texas... so... both? :P
Josie
11-11-2009, 11:02 AM
First of all....
L.O.L.
You're cute, little thing.. but your gusto just doesn't quite match up to a solid argument.
Okay first off I have no idea what the hell slurp-drop-and roll means. Probably some stupid crap that you would only understand if you were online 24/7 for lack of having a real life.
It means Josie thinks you sound like drivel on pavement.
Secondly, it wasn't bullshit about me not trying to be rude.
Oh? This quote is definitely another of the lian family gems in the 'not rude' category, then:
They think, oh let me just do whatever I want have sex with these guys and if anything happens I can always just get an abotion. Is that something you want to Condone Mrs/Mr Josie???????????? Teenagers going out and having abortions all the time?
no no, hun. If you were just trying to address your side of the issue without any attacks, you would have avoided trying to pin any moral mishap on me ;)
I really don't mind taking responsibility for myself, so I suppose that's a simple thing for me to see :)
I know it might be a little hard to wrap your mind around but not everyone wants to start a 'bitch fest' with someone else. I mean, obviously that seems to be YOUR only goal in life, but whatever.
Did you flail? I imagine you flailing, finger snapping, and takin out your gold hoops...
To be completely honest, p.imp, I have quite a few strong opinions. I let them burst out in vapid, snipey ways when I have a beef on my shoulders that I'd like to dish out on someone else. Yes, that does mean I'm turning annoyance with life into energy to prove a point in a not-so tactful way. It's therapeutic =)
Sorry that I don't know how to insert spiffy links and whatnot,
Oh, that's okay, sweetheart. There's actually a button in the quote/reply window (if you would quote anything. ever.) that looks like an earth with a sideways figure 8. If you click it, you can enter spiffy text if you want to. Firefox also has one of these buttons if you don't want to try to find it on the site itself.
but again, I do have a little bit of a life and don't have time to go look up the codes or whatever to do it.
Catty, but honey - you really should be more than a noob before you try to point fingers about who does or doesn't have a life to tend to here. Advice. Take it or leave it.
Anywhoooo, go have a looksie at that site, it's just the first one that came up when I looked for it.
I did. It proved none of your points. If anything, it could be used to back up my argument that a lack of talk about sex is the issue. Obviously the consequences are not fully realized without an open dialogue.
Of course you could actually go to a library, you know the thing with books and magazines and things called references, to find quite a bit of stuff on the matter.
Okay, now that was just bad. That was overdone in like.. 5th grade. Before the interwebs were even floating into my lil life.
If you look at the statistics on that however, it shows over half of the people who are having abortions are under the age of 25. Most of the abortions performed are to women who are NOT married and who more than likely slept with someone who either it didn't work out or they didn't see each other after. Quite irresponsible to have unprotected sex with these people. Yea, I get that condoms break sometimes, but not THAT MUCH, honestly people.
And you only make my point for me (if not in a really ree ree way)... Your clincher sentence here is of an educational tone. Like MAYBE these females were not aware. In any case, it does seem that there is a disconnect, no? Isn't the best way to reconnect through communication?
ONLY 1% of women have abortion because of rape or incest. Why the hell are the other 99% of people doing it? maybe it's the new 'cool' thing to do.
I'm curious, have you ever in your life talked to a woman who is considering an abortion or has had one? There is no 'cool' factor.
Okay, okay, life doesn't always line up nice and pretty, sometimes your makeup opens in your travel bag and you have black powder everywhere.
Only I'm not emo and don't own an ounce of black make-up. At all. Not even my mascara is black. Even if I was emo, my emo powdery travel bag would not quite be the same impact, emotionally, as finding out that I'm pregnant with a pregnancy that was so unwanted that I would voluntarily undergo surgery to have it removed.
You wouldn't be punishing the child if you found a foster family for them. I have mentioned this before. Never did I say that you had to keep the baby yourself. There are plenty of people who can't and want to have children. You seem to keep skipping over the fact that I keep saying this. Maybe you know I'm right, but whatever.
How sheltered are you?? I'm.... this one actually has me truly taken aback.
Have you EVER known a foster child, been friends with them, lived in a foster home, lived in a ghetto (where there are a million foster children), etc.?
I'm gonna go ahead and answer for you: Probably not.
If you had, you would know that statement up there ^ is 100% bullshit. There is so much here that obviously you don't have the capacity to grasp. Given that, and that it woud literally take a book to elaborate on the downfalls of....
-foster care
-adoption
-adoption as a substitue for abortion
I will leave you to ponder on why it might be bullshit... and I emplore you to maybe visit this library you mentioned to me and spend some time reading the many books that have been written on each topic.
don't try and make it out like I'm damning women to go get their shit cut open with rusty knives and whatever.
Sweetheart. Please re-read what I said. I'm tempted to restate myself in the hopes that a second or third repetition will drive home my point... but that isn't the case.
You've got the gusto - the snappy bitch ebb to you... I'll give you that. I was really disappointed in your link/stat attempt though. It seems you're not at all interested in the debate so much as the poo fling.
I like both.
This is a great topic to debate because there are so many facets to it, but I'm going to step out of debating it with you or lian. I do not believe you have the ability to put together a good case for your morality, while I am more than happy to put together some debatable ideas.
I do encourage you to reply, though. Who knows, you could surprise me and say something.
L.O.L.
You're cute, little thing.. but your gusto just doesn't quite match up to a solid argument.
Okay first off I have no idea what the hell slurp-drop-and roll means. Probably some stupid crap that you would only understand if you were online 24/7 for lack of having a real life.
It means Josie thinks you sound like drivel on pavement.
Secondly, it wasn't bullshit about me not trying to be rude.
Oh? This quote is definitely another of the lian family gems in the 'not rude' category, then:
They think, oh let me just do whatever I want have sex with these guys and if anything happens I can always just get an abotion. Is that something you want to Condone Mrs/Mr Josie???????????? Teenagers going out and having abortions all the time?
no no, hun. If you were just trying to address your side of the issue without any attacks, you would have avoided trying to pin any moral mishap on me ;)
I really don't mind taking responsibility for myself, so I suppose that's a simple thing for me to see :)
I know it might be a little hard to wrap your mind around but not everyone wants to start a 'bitch fest' with someone else. I mean, obviously that seems to be YOUR only goal in life, but whatever.
Did you flail? I imagine you flailing, finger snapping, and takin out your gold hoops...
To be completely honest, p.imp, I have quite a few strong opinions. I let them burst out in vapid, snipey ways when I have a beef on my shoulders that I'd like to dish out on someone else. Yes, that does mean I'm turning annoyance with life into energy to prove a point in a not-so tactful way. It's therapeutic =)
Sorry that I don't know how to insert spiffy links and whatnot,
Oh, that's okay, sweetheart. There's actually a button in the quote/reply window (if you would quote anything. ever.) that looks like an earth with a sideways figure 8. If you click it, you can enter spiffy text if you want to. Firefox also has one of these buttons if you don't want to try to find it on the site itself.
but again, I do have a little bit of a life and don't have time to go look up the codes or whatever to do it.
Catty, but honey - you really should be more than a noob before you try to point fingers about who does or doesn't have a life to tend to here. Advice. Take it or leave it.
Anywhoooo, go have a looksie at that site, it's just the first one that came up when I looked for it.
I did. It proved none of your points. If anything, it could be used to back up my argument that a lack of talk about sex is the issue. Obviously the consequences are not fully realized without an open dialogue.
Of course you could actually go to a library, you know the thing with books and magazines and things called references, to find quite a bit of stuff on the matter.
Okay, now that was just bad. That was overdone in like.. 5th grade. Before the interwebs were even floating into my lil life.
If you look at the statistics on that however, it shows over half of the people who are having abortions are under the age of 25. Most of the abortions performed are to women who are NOT married and who more than likely slept with someone who either it didn't work out or they didn't see each other after. Quite irresponsible to have unprotected sex with these people. Yea, I get that condoms break sometimes, but not THAT MUCH, honestly people.
And you only make my point for me (if not in a really ree ree way)... Your clincher sentence here is of an educational tone. Like MAYBE these females were not aware. In any case, it does seem that there is a disconnect, no? Isn't the best way to reconnect through communication?
ONLY 1% of women have abortion because of rape or incest. Why the hell are the other 99% of people doing it? maybe it's the new 'cool' thing to do.
I'm curious, have you ever in your life talked to a woman who is considering an abortion or has had one? There is no 'cool' factor.
Okay, okay, life doesn't always line up nice and pretty, sometimes your makeup opens in your travel bag and you have black powder everywhere.
Only I'm not emo and don't own an ounce of black make-up. At all. Not even my mascara is black. Even if I was emo, my emo powdery travel bag would not quite be the same impact, emotionally, as finding out that I'm pregnant with a pregnancy that was so unwanted that I would voluntarily undergo surgery to have it removed.
You wouldn't be punishing the child if you found a foster family for them. I have mentioned this before. Never did I say that you had to keep the baby yourself. There are plenty of people who can't and want to have children. You seem to keep skipping over the fact that I keep saying this. Maybe you know I'm right, but whatever.
How sheltered are you?? I'm.... this one actually has me truly taken aback.
Have you EVER known a foster child, been friends with them, lived in a foster home, lived in a ghetto (where there are a million foster children), etc.?
I'm gonna go ahead and answer for you: Probably not.
If you had, you would know that statement up there ^ is 100% bullshit. There is so much here that obviously you don't have the capacity to grasp. Given that, and that it woud literally take a book to elaborate on the downfalls of....
-foster care
-adoption
-adoption as a substitue for abortion
I will leave you to ponder on why it might be bullshit... and I emplore you to maybe visit this library you mentioned to me and spend some time reading the many books that have been written on each topic.
don't try and make it out like I'm damning women to go get their shit cut open with rusty knives and whatever.
Sweetheart. Please re-read what I said. I'm tempted to restate myself in the hopes that a second or third repetition will drive home my point... but that isn't the case.
You've got the gusto - the snappy bitch ebb to you... I'll give you that. I was really disappointed in your link/stat attempt though. It seems you're not at all interested in the debate so much as the poo fling.
I like both.
This is a great topic to debate because there are so many facets to it, but I'm going to step out of debating it with you or lian. I do not believe you have the ability to put together a good case for your morality, while I am more than happy to put together some debatable ideas.
I do encourage you to reply, though. Who knows, you could surprise me and say something.
Jenn
11-11-2009, 11:06 AM
Pefectlyimprefect, your lady parts can fall out by having too many kids too. I am against abortion, but having too many children can damage your insides as well.
perfectlyimperfect
11-11-2009, 01:18 PM
I'm curious, have you ever in your life talked to a woman who is considering an abortion or has had one? There is no 'cool' factor.
Guessing that is how you do a quote but whatever. Yes, I actually know a few. I had two friends in highschool who had multiple abortions. The first girl had three and each time it was because she had gotten drunk and slept with someone who didn't care about her. She just did it like there was nothing wrong with it, like she was taking frickin Plan B. The other girl was ith a guy who just didn't want to have kids, she got two abortions and he ended up leaving her after two years. So yes, I do know people who have done that and yes, they talked about it like it was the coolest thing in the world. So that is where that argument comes from.
Even if I was emo, my emo powdery travel bag would not quite be the same impact, emotionally, as finding out that I'm pregnant with a pregnancy that was so unwanted that I would voluntarily undergo surgery to have it removed.
No I am not emo, I was just trying to show how yes sometimes life doesn't work the way you want it too, but finding out you are having a baby you don't want is a little more serious than 'life not really working out.'
Have you EVER known a foster child, been friends with them, lived in a foster home, lived in a ghetto (where there are a million foster children), etc.?
Yes I am friends with a couple of kids who have foster parents. My father just adopted a daughter. The kids that I knew were rather happy. I'm sure they appreciate the fact that they are alive. Yes, some foster parents suck ass but there are biological parents who suck ass too. Parents who wanted to have kids that just want them like accesories or to get back with someone or everyone else was doing it or whatever reason. Are you trying to say people should just stop having children because some biological parents blow? Because that's what it seems like. some foster families suck so apparently the whole system is screwed. Whatever.
I'm just trying to say that there are a lot more options than abortion and I don't believe abortion should be allowed in most of the cases. I think preventative measures should be taken and if they aren't then there are things a person could do other than take a life.
Obviously we are going to continue to disagree on the subect but that's whatever. I don't believe abortion is an amoral subject. I think the lack of morals in this nation today is a bit of a downfall, but hey I'm not the president so there is jack shit I can do about it.
Pefectlyimprefect, your lady parts can fall out by having too many kids too. I am against abortion, but having too many children can damage your insides as well.
Yes, I understand that but the point I was trying to make is that most people get an abortion is not because they never want to have kids, but because they don't want to have one now. They may change their mind about it and want to have kids one day and because of a botched abortion the opportunity to produce their own child is lost. If your insides fall out due to having too many kids, well you obviously have a couple children and you shouldn't be too worried about ever needing to have more.
---don't know if the quote things worked. Like Josie said I am a Noob or whatever so cut me a break on the quotes thing---
Guessing that is how you do a quote but whatever. Yes, I actually know a few. I had two friends in highschool who had multiple abortions. The first girl had three and each time it was because she had gotten drunk and slept with someone who didn't care about her. She just did it like there was nothing wrong with it, like she was taking frickin Plan B. The other girl was ith a guy who just didn't want to have kids, she got two abortions and he ended up leaving her after two years. So yes, I do know people who have done that and yes, they talked about it like it was the coolest thing in the world. So that is where that argument comes from.
Even if I was emo, my emo powdery travel bag would not quite be the same impact, emotionally, as finding out that I'm pregnant with a pregnancy that was so unwanted that I would voluntarily undergo surgery to have it removed.
No I am not emo, I was just trying to show how yes sometimes life doesn't work the way you want it too, but finding out you are having a baby you don't want is a little more serious than 'life not really working out.'
Have you EVER known a foster child, been friends with them, lived in a foster home, lived in a ghetto (where there are a million foster children), etc.?
Yes I am friends with a couple of kids who have foster parents. My father just adopted a daughter. The kids that I knew were rather happy. I'm sure they appreciate the fact that they are alive. Yes, some foster parents suck ass but there are biological parents who suck ass too. Parents who wanted to have kids that just want them like accesories or to get back with someone or everyone else was doing it or whatever reason. Are you trying to say people should just stop having children because some biological parents blow? Because that's what it seems like. some foster families suck so apparently the whole system is screwed. Whatever.
I'm just trying to say that there are a lot more options than abortion and I don't believe abortion should be allowed in most of the cases. I think preventative measures should be taken and if they aren't then there are things a person could do other than take a life.
Obviously we are going to continue to disagree on the subect but that's whatever. I don't believe abortion is an amoral subject. I think the lack of morals in this nation today is a bit of a downfall, but hey I'm not the president so there is jack shit I can do about it.
Pefectlyimprefect, your lady parts can fall out by having too many kids too. I am against abortion, but having too many children can damage your insides as well.
Yes, I understand that but the point I was trying to make is that most people get an abortion is not because they never want to have kids, but because they don't want to have one now. They may change their mind about it and want to have kids one day and because of a botched abortion the opportunity to produce their own child is lost. If your insides fall out due to having too many kids, well you obviously have a couple children and you shouldn't be too worried about ever needing to have more.
---don't know if the quote things worked. Like Josie said I am a Noob or whatever so cut me a break on the quotes thing---
Titty
11-11-2009, 01:52 PM
your lady parts can fall out by having too many kids
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/mythirdhouse/85eq5hd.gif
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/mythirdhouse/85eq5hd.gif
CrAnIuM
11-11-2009, 03:34 PM
.The first girl had three and each time it was because she had gotten drunk and slept with someone who didn't care about her.
Umm .. can you please pass my ph # along to that chick ? ^^
K thbx .. bye !!
Umm .. can you please pass my ph # along to that chick ? ^^
K thbx .. bye !!
perfectlyimperfect
11-11-2009, 03:48 PM
Lol her and I don't talk anymore. She works at the strip club back home. So I guess that should be number enough for you...
NiBBler
11-11-2009, 03:51 PM
'bitch fest'
She quoted me!
She quoted me!
Scabman
12-06-2009, 07:08 PM
What say does a man have when it comes to abortion?
I mean, if a guy juice up a girl with his seed and she becomes pregnant, does he have a responsibility, opinion or a right to determine if the unborn will be granted life?
Or as a man, would you rather not know about it?
Would you be relieved if you heard about both the pregnancy and the abortion afterwards ?
I'm struggling to find out my feelings on the matter, as I just found out that I made a girl pregnant two years ago, and that she took an abortion.
She has yet to tell me, since I was told by an mutual friend.
She also was, and still is, madly in love with me, so on top of this I also feel like a massive douche for having "used" her.
A confused douche, really.
I don't know how to feel.
I mean, if a guy juice up a girl with his seed and she becomes pregnant, does he have a responsibility, opinion or a right to determine if the unborn will be granted life?
Or as a man, would you rather not know about it?
Would you be relieved if you heard about both the pregnancy and the abortion afterwards ?
I'm struggling to find out my feelings on the matter, as I just found out that I made a girl pregnant two years ago, and that she took an abortion.
She has yet to tell me, since I was told by an mutual friend.
She also was, and still is, madly in love with me, so on top of this I also feel like a massive douche for having "used" her.
A confused douche, really.
I don't know how to feel.
CrAnIuM
12-06-2009, 08:05 PM
I don't know how to feel.
Grateful relief. ^^
You should send this girl about 730 red roses . .. one for each day you have been spared the absolute horror of fatherhood.
Grateful relief. ^^
You should send this girl about 730 red roses . .. one for each day you have been spared the absolute horror of fatherhood.
Titty
12-06-2009, 09:35 PM
Grateful relief. ^^
You should send this girl about 730 red roses . .. one for each day you have been spared the absolute horror of fatherhood.
Not everyone shares this view. For me, nothing is more rewarding and fulfilling as being a dad. I've never viewed parenthood as a task or hindrance.
I'd be very disappointed to discover someone made such a major decision as to abort my child without any input from me. At the very least, I would expect to be informed--if not consulted--before someone were to partake in actions that could potentially influence my future in a profound manner.
You should send this girl about 730 red roses . .. one for each day you have been spared the absolute horror of fatherhood.
Not everyone shares this view. For me, nothing is more rewarding and fulfilling as being a dad. I've never viewed parenthood as a task or hindrance.
I'd be very disappointed to discover someone made such a major decision as to abort my child without any input from me. At the very least, I would expect to be informed--if not consulted--before someone were to partake in actions that could potentially influence my future in a profound manner.
CrAnIuM
12-06-2009, 09:51 PM
Not everyone shares this view. For me, nothing is more rewarding and fulfilling as being a dad. I've never viewed parenthood as a task or hindrance.
I'd be very disappointed to discover someone made such a major decision as to abort my child without any input from me. At the very least, I would expect to be informed--if not consulted--before someone were to partake in actions that could potentially influence my future in a profound manner.
I bet you, like most parents, think that your children are "gifts".
I happen to be of sound mind. And being of sound mind know that any sexually functional male when coupled with a sexually functioning female will almost always make a new version of themselves.
Abort one and you can theoretically make few hundred more .. whoop de fucking do.
Children are no more special than a new tomato plant that I laboriously plant and tend to fruition .. hell the tomato plant is oft time MORE rewarding.
Any man that says he is the same and his life is better AFTER a screaming shit covered little cock block comes into his marriage/relationship is either a goddamn liar or a goddamn pussy hating faggot.
I'd be very disappointed to discover someone made such a major decision as to abort my child without any input from me. At the very least, I would expect to be informed--if not consulted--before someone were to partake in actions that could potentially influence my future in a profound manner.
I bet you, like most parents, think that your children are "gifts".
I happen to be of sound mind. And being of sound mind know that any sexually functional male when coupled with a sexually functioning female will almost always make a new version of themselves.
Abort one and you can theoretically make few hundred more .. whoop de fucking do.
Children are no more special than a new tomato plant that I laboriously plant and tend to fruition .. hell the tomato plant is oft time MORE rewarding.
Any man that says he is the same and his life is better AFTER a screaming shit covered little cock block comes into his marriage/relationship is either a goddamn liar or a goddamn pussy hating faggot.
Titty
12-06-2009, 10:28 PM
I bet you, like most parents, think that your children are "gifts".
I consider them more accomplishments than gifts. They weren't sent to me by some divine source as a reward for being a subservient follower; nor were they provided to me to allow me to walk the straight and narrow.
They are here because I wanted them to be. Perhaps that's what accounts for our opposing beliefs.
I happen to be of sound mind. And being of sound mind know that any sexually functional male when coupled with a sexually functioning female will almost always make a new version of themselves.
Abort one and you can theoretically make few hundred more .. whoop de fucking do.
Yeah, one of you is more than enough for this world. There enough miserable, repugnant assholes already.
Anyone willing to accept your seed more than likely shares these attributes.
Children are no more special than a new tomato plant that I laboriously plant and tend to fruition .. hell the tomato plant is oft time MORE rewarding.
Any man that says he is the same and his life is better AFTER a screaming shit covered little cock block comes into his marriage/relationship is either a goddamn liar or a goddamn pussy hating faggot.
Without question my life has been enriched by parenthood. I don't think the same applies to everyone since the individual situation dictates the experience.
Take someone whose relationship lacks solidarity and add an unexpected pregnancy into the mix. It's not probable the situation will be impacted in any positive way. One or both of parties involved will grow to resent not only the other, but also the byproduct of their failed endeavor.
You get out of life what you put into it.
I consider them more accomplishments than gifts. They weren't sent to me by some divine source as a reward for being a subservient follower; nor were they provided to me to allow me to walk the straight and narrow.
They are here because I wanted them to be. Perhaps that's what accounts for our opposing beliefs.
I happen to be of sound mind. And being of sound mind know that any sexually functional male when coupled with a sexually functioning female will almost always make a new version of themselves.
Abort one and you can theoretically make few hundred more .. whoop de fucking do.
Yeah, one of you is more than enough for this world. There enough miserable, repugnant assholes already.
Anyone willing to accept your seed more than likely shares these attributes.
Children are no more special than a new tomato plant that I laboriously plant and tend to fruition .. hell the tomato plant is oft time MORE rewarding.
Any man that says he is the same and his life is better AFTER a screaming shit covered little cock block comes into his marriage/relationship is either a goddamn liar or a goddamn pussy hating faggot.
Without question my life has been enriched by parenthood. I don't think the same applies to everyone since the individual situation dictates the experience.
Take someone whose relationship lacks solidarity and add an unexpected pregnancy into the mix. It's not probable the situation will be impacted in any positive way. One or both of parties involved will grow to resent not only the other, but also the byproduct of their failed endeavor.
You get out of life what you put into it.
CrAnIuM
12-06-2009, 10:55 PM
I consider them more accomplishments than gifts.
Snails fuck and have baby snails.
Accomplishment indicates a trial to complete a task. As noted by the over burdened child welfare system any fucker can make a kid.
In MY opinion it would be a more legitimate accomplishment to say I have NO children.
They are here because I wanted them to be. Perhaps that's what accounts for our opposing beliefs.I believe that 90% of the people that say they want their child most likely had NO planning other than the 5 minute wait for the pregnancy test to reach completion.
I put more thought and planning into a BLT sammitch than MOST people put into decision process of making a child.
Saying "Oh honey .. let's make babies" does NOT constitute planned parenthood.
Yeah, one of you is more than enough for this world. There enough miserable, repugnant assholes alreadyAgreed. I wanted BOTH my children aborted. The women that carried them disagreed.
Anyone willing to accept your seed more than likely shares these attributes.Wrong. See above.
You get out of life what you put into it. Fucking A right about that ... ^^
It goes about like this VVVVV
I go where I want.
I do what I want.
When I want to go to a place I can simply grab keys and go.
If I don't want to come home tonight .. I don't have to, nor do I need to make plans for 99 contingencies in order to have a clear conscience about staying out.
Noises ... deadly chemicals .. sharp pointy shit ... are all over my house, not locked inside some fucking child proof container.
Weapons, yep, locked and loaded, and left out at waist level .. and guess what .. no kid to shoot his face off.
If I want to fuck my woman on the living room floor there's no little fucker to run through and see.
I have no worries about where my little fucker will get educated .. nor do I have any worries about the world full of pedophile/rapist/murdering fuckers that are all queuing to kill my kid.
I don't have to hear a phlegm filled whiny toddler scream itself to sleep for the 6 hours before I have to go get up at 0600 for a full days work .. only to come home to a house that smells like cat shit and mustard on a 3 day old wheat roll.
I don't have to fight traffic for 1.25 hours only to be rick rolled by a bevy of little urchins as soon as I step in the door ... and I don't have to fake some shitty form of interest when all I really want is 4 ounces of rum mixed with 6 ounces of coke.
I don't have ANY responsibilities for ANY other human of non adult age.
Hmm ...
Yep .. I get out of life exactly what I put into it, one of my kids is now 21, no more child support .. one is 15 .. I'll be done with that financial burden soon enough .. then its all butter.
And I can 100% honestly say ... I'm glad neither of my offspring have ever lived with me past their 5th bday.
Life is good. http://swollencranium.com/forums/images/icons/yay.gif
Snails fuck and have baby snails.
Accomplishment indicates a trial to complete a task. As noted by the over burdened child welfare system any fucker can make a kid.
In MY opinion it would be a more legitimate accomplishment to say I have NO children.
They are here because I wanted them to be. Perhaps that's what accounts for our opposing beliefs.I believe that 90% of the people that say they want their child most likely had NO planning other than the 5 minute wait for the pregnancy test to reach completion.
I put more thought and planning into a BLT sammitch than MOST people put into decision process of making a child.
Saying "Oh honey .. let's make babies" does NOT constitute planned parenthood.
Yeah, one of you is more than enough for this world. There enough miserable, repugnant assholes alreadyAgreed. I wanted BOTH my children aborted. The women that carried them disagreed.
Anyone willing to accept your seed more than likely shares these attributes.Wrong. See above.
You get out of life what you put into it. Fucking A right about that ... ^^
It goes about like this VVVVV
I go where I want.
I do what I want.
When I want to go to a place I can simply grab keys and go.
If I don't want to come home tonight .. I don't have to, nor do I need to make plans for 99 contingencies in order to have a clear conscience about staying out.
Noises ... deadly chemicals .. sharp pointy shit ... are all over my house, not locked inside some fucking child proof container.
Weapons, yep, locked and loaded, and left out at waist level .. and guess what .. no kid to shoot his face off.
If I want to fuck my woman on the living room floor there's no little fucker to run through and see.
I have no worries about where my little fucker will get educated .. nor do I have any worries about the world full of pedophile/rapist/murdering fuckers that are all queuing to kill my kid.
I don't have to hear a phlegm filled whiny toddler scream itself to sleep for the 6 hours before I have to go get up at 0600 for a full days work .. only to come home to a house that smells like cat shit and mustard on a 3 day old wheat roll.
I don't have to fight traffic for 1.25 hours only to be rick rolled by a bevy of little urchins as soon as I step in the door ... and I don't have to fake some shitty form of interest when all I really want is 4 ounces of rum mixed with 6 ounces of coke.
I don't have ANY responsibilities for ANY other human of non adult age.
Hmm ...
Yep .. I get out of life exactly what I put into it, one of my kids is now 21, no more child support .. one is 15 .. I'll be done with that financial burden soon enough .. then its all butter.
And I can 100% honestly say ... I'm glad neither of my offspring have ever lived with me past their 5th bday.
Life is good. http://swollencranium.com/forums/images/icons/yay.gif
Deadly_Toxin
12-06-2009, 10:56 PM
Please note that I neglected to read the majority of the other posts in this thread before posting (mostly out of pure laziness... boo on me). However, I will post my own beliefs.
What one person believes should not determine the rights of another person. Pregnancy can be an extremely difficult thing for a woman to deal with. I don't care if she brought it upon herself or not. Everyone makes mistakes, big or small. Every person has different circumstances, and there is no possible way to look at abortion as a black and white issue. I could pretty much guarantee that for ALMOST everybody there is a circumstance that exists in which abortion would be the chosen solution.
For myself (as I'm sure for everyone else) abortion is a hard topic to come up with a solid belief for. Once I was completely for it; believing that as long as it was early enough in the pregnancy there was nothing unethical about it. A ball of cells does not constitute a living being regardless of what it may become in the future... in my mind. However, having recently had a miscarriage myself, my views have changed.
I am aware that these new feelings are probably biased, considering they are composed more of jealousy than anything else. In fact I become jealous over women who are pregnant and have children as well. Unintentionally of course, but the feelings are still there.
In any case, I really think it's a situation where the old saying "easier said than done" comes to play. It's certainly simple for someone to go one way or the other when they are perfectly out of the situation to begin with.
Though there is one thing that I am not on the fence for, and that is multiple abortions.
If you are stupid enough to become pregnant "accidentally" multiple times and still be unable to find a conclusive way of birth control then you should not have a place in society to begin with.
What one person believes should not determine the rights of another person. Pregnancy can be an extremely difficult thing for a woman to deal with. I don't care if she brought it upon herself or not. Everyone makes mistakes, big or small. Every person has different circumstances, and there is no possible way to look at abortion as a black and white issue. I could pretty much guarantee that for ALMOST everybody there is a circumstance that exists in which abortion would be the chosen solution.
For myself (as I'm sure for everyone else) abortion is a hard topic to come up with a solid belief for. Once I was completely for it; believing that as long as it was early enough in the pregnancy there was nothing unethical about it. A ball of cells does not constitute a living being regardless of what it may become in the future... in my mind. However, having recently had a miscarriage myself, my views have changed.
I am aware that these new feelings are probably biased, considering they are composed more of jealousy than anything else. In fact I become jealous over women who are pregnant and have children as well. Unintentionally of course, but the feelings are still there.
In any case, I really think it's a situation where the old saying "easier said than done" comes to play. It's certainly simple for someone to go one way or the other when they are perfectly out of the situation to begin with.
Though there is one thing that I am not on the fence for, and that is multiple abortions.
If you are stupid enough to become pregnant "accidentally" multiple times and still be unable to find a conclusive way of birth control then you should not have a place in society to begin with.
CrAnIuM
12-06-2009, 11:21 PM
http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/after_12_weeks.html
And ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFaVxRc_XPE&feature=channel
And ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFaVxRc_XPE&feature=channel
Scabman
12-07-2009, 03:51 AM
one for each day you have been spared the absolute horror of fatherhood.
I wanted BOTH my children aborted. The women that carried them disagreed.
I so hope that your kids will find this forum one day and read all of your posts.
It would be awesome.
I wanted BOTH my children aborted. The women that carried them disagreed.
I so hope that your kids will find this forum one day and read all of your posts.
It would be awesome.
Josie
12-07-2009, 04:25 AM
I so hope that your kids will find this forum one day and read all of your posts.
It would be awesome.
Something tells me that with each month's child support check, he sends hate mail to them to inform them just how he feels about their existence.
It would be awesome.
Something tells me that with each month's child support check, he sends hate mail to them to inform them just how he feels about their existence.
CrAnIuM
12-07-2009, 06:07 AM
I so hope that your kids will find this forum one day and read all of your posts.
It would be awesome.
Something tells me that with each month's child support check, he sends hate mail to them to inform them just how he feels about their existence.
Oh how you silly people get sillier and sillier....
I HAVE told them had I had MY choice they would have not been allowed to grow into a human...and by extension I could be enjoying a nice new Dodge Viper.... or a villa on the moon with the payments that are stolen each month from me.
Pssst ...that means yes ...I have told them I would have aborted them.
It would be awesome.
Something tells me that with each month's child support check, he sends hate mail to them to inform them just how he feels about their existence.
Oh how you silly people get sillier and sillier....
I HAVE told them had I had MY choice they would have not been allowed to grow into a human...and by extension I could be enjoying a nice new Dodge Viper.... or a villa on the moon with the payments that are stolen each month from me.
Pssst ...that means yes ...I have told them I would have aborted them.
CrAnIuM
12-07-2009, 06:07 AM
Papa of the century !! ^^^
SlimSkeeter
12-07-2009, 08:52 AM
What say does a man have when it comes to abortion?
I mean, if a guy juice up a girl with his seed and she becomes pregnant, does he have a responsibility, opinion or a right to determine if the unborn will be granted life?
Or as a man, would you rather not know about it?
Would you be relieved if you heard about both the pregnancy and the abortion afterwards ?
I'm struggling to find out my feelings on the matter, as I just found out that I made a girl pregnant two years ago, and that she took an abortion.
She has yet to tell me, since I was told by an mutual friend.
She also was, and still is, madly in love with me, so on top of this I also feel like a massive douche for having "used" her.
A confused douche, really.
I don't know how to feel.
Part of me wants to say that the man should have every bit of the same say in it as the woman.... however I have to temper that with the notion that that only counts if they are in a serious and long term relationship.
If it was the result of a short term and perhaps sporadic relationship....then pretty much everything falls on the woman's shoulders. Now that also means that she has the choice to tell the man involved or not. Which sucks....
I would want to know, though. I think I would be devastated in your shoes. I can't say anything to "using her", but just the fact that she knows where you are and still didn't say anything to you about it.... does not really speak all that highly of her. Still...I can understand the feeling.
I'd push the issue....confront her, tell her what you know....see what happens.
I mean, if a guy juice up a girl with his seed and she becomes pregnant, does he have a responsibility, opinion or a right to determine if the unborn will be granted life?
Or as a man, would you rather not know about it?
Would you be relieved if you heard about both the pregnancy and the abortion afterwards ?
I'm struggling to find out my feelings on the matter, as I just found out that I made a girl pregnant two years ago, and that she took an abortion.
She has yet to tell me, since I was told by an mutual friend.
She also was, and still is, madly in love with me, so on top of this I also feel like a massive douche for having "used" her.
A confused douche, really.
I don't know how to feel.
Part of me wants to say that the man should have every bit of the same say in it as the woman.... however I have to temper that with the notion that that only counts if they are in a serious and long term relationship.
If it was the result of a short term and perhaps sporadic relationship....then pretty much everything falls on the woman's shoulders. Now that also means that she has the choice to tell the man involved or not. Which sucks....
I would want to know, though. I think I would be devastated in your shoes. I can't say anything to "using her", but just the fact that she knows where you are and still didn't say anything to you about it.... does not really speak all that highly of her. Still...I can understand the feeling.
I'd push the issue....confront her, tell her what you know....see what happens.
KommieKat
12-07-2009, 09:24 AM
I don't know how to feel.
There's no reason why you can't feel sadness and relief at the same time.
Ashame she did not include you in the decision making but at the same time, it's good to NOT be a father when you're not ready for it.
There's no reason why you can't feel sadness and relief at the same time.
Ashame she did not include you in the decision making but at the same time, it's good to NOT be a father when you're not ready for it.
Kashmir
02-05-2010, 02:15 PM
You make it sound like Right wing Bible belting fanatic propaganda.
There is NO tiny human nor anything that resembles a tiny human in 7 days.
It has potential to become human but at 7 days, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue clinging to the side of the uterus.
Next thing you're going to tell us that the embryo gives out a silent scream as it's being aborted. Give me a break.
hahaha..
There is NO tiny human nor anything that resembles a tiny human in 7 days.
It has potential to become human but at 7 days, it is nothing more than a mass of tissue clinging to the side of the uterus.
Next thing you're going to tell us that the embryo gives out a silent scream as it's being aborted. Give me a break.
hahaha..
Kashmir
02-05-2010, 03:06 PM
Different forms of birth control are readily available. 100% effective is not having sex at all. not my problem that your condom broke. cant blame the clinics, they give sound advice, its ones choice on taking the advice or not, you should have sued the condom company if it was a big deal. if you didnt want kids shouldnt have had sex. oh well lesson learned. For those of you against abortion here is a situation to ponder what would happen if your 11 year old daughter who has came into her monthly cycle just happens to be molested or raped by family or predator. Will you make her go through the pregnancy? or terminate it. I for one would kill the bastard who did that to my child then have the pregnancy terminated.
An 11-year-old girl became one of the world's youngest mothers - after she went into labor at her wedding.
Kordeza Zhelyazkova, from Sliven (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Sliven), Bulgaria (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Bulgaria), was still wearing her wedding dress and tiara when she was rushed to the hospital, where she gave birth to a 5-pound, 8-ounce girl.
"I'm not going to play with toys anymore - I have a new toy now," Kordeza told reporters as she showed off little Violeta.
Kordeza - who got pregnant two weeks after her 11th birthday - told the News of the World: "It feels strange...now I must grow up. I am not going back to school."
The baby's 19-year-old dad, Jeliazko, met Kordeza when he rescued her from bullies in the playground.
"I was walking past the school when I saw some boys mocking her and I told them to leave her alone," he said. "Then she arranged to meet me and asked me out on our first date.
"We didn't plan to have sex or a baby, although I fell in love with Kordeza the moment I saw her," Jeliazko said.
But within a week, Kordeza was pregnant - and Jeliazko was facing six years in jail for having sex with a minor. The age of consent in Bulgaria is 14.
"I thought she was 15," he said. "She didn't tell me she was 11. I was really scared."
"I didn't want to say in case he wouldn't fancy me," Kordeza confessed.
"I didn't know I was pregnant until my grandmother saw I had put on weight," she added. "I just thought I'd eaten too many burgers."
"It's normal for our girls to have babies young," said Kordeza's grandmother Dida, 55. "It's our tradition. But I didn't want it for my Kordeza - I felt she was too young."
The family planned a three-day Roma wedding so Kordeza and Jeliazko could be married before the baby arrived.
But Kordeza went into labor on the second day. "I had been having pain in the morning and a couple of hours into the wedding, it got worse."
She was rushed to hospital and gave birth 20 minutes later.
"It was quite easy but painful, too," she said. "I was very happy when I saw her. She has a nose like me and hair like Jeliazko."
Violeta's grandmothers will be her guardians, and Kordeza and her daughter will receive about $115 a month in state benefits.
An 11-year-old girl became one of the world's youngest mothers - after she went into labor at her wedding.
Kordeza Zhelyazkova, from Sliven (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Sliven), Bulgaria (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Bulgaria), was still wearing her wedding dress and tiara when she was rushed to the hospital, where she gave birth to a 5-pound, 8-ounce girl.
"I'm not going to play with toys anymore - I have a new toy now," Kordeza told reporters as she showed off little Violeta.
Kordeza - who got pregnant two weeks after her 11th birthday - told the News of the World: "It feels strange...now I must grow up. I am not going back to school."
The baby's 19-year-old dad, Jeliazko, met Kordeza when he rescued her from bullies in the playground.
"I was walking past the school when I saw some boys mocking her and I told them to leave her alone," he said. "Then she arranged to meet me and asked me out on our first date.
"We didn't plan to have sex or a baby, although I fell in love with Kordeza the moment I saw her," Jeliazko said.
But within a week, Kordeza was pregnant - and Jeliazko was facing six years in jail for having sex with a minor. The age of consent in Bulgaria is 14.
"I thought she was 15," he said. "She didn't tell me she was 11. I was really scared."
"I didn't want to say in case he wouldn't fancy me," Kordeza confessed.
"I didn't know I was pregnant until my grandmother saw I had put on weight," she added. "I just thought I'd eaten too many burgers."
"It's normal for our girls to have babies young," said Kordeza's grandmother Dida, 55. "It's our tradition. But I didn't want it for my Kordeza - I felt she was too young."
The family planned a three-day Roma wedding so Kordeza and Jeliazko could be married before the baby arrived.
But Kordeza went into labor on the second day. "I had been having pain in the morning and a couple of hours into the wedding, it got worse."
She was rushed to hospital and gave birth 20 minutes later.
"It was quite easy but painful, too," she said. "I was very happy when I saw her. She has a nose like me and hair like Jeliazko."
Violeta's grandmothers will be her guardians, and Kordeza and her daughter will receive about $115 a month in state benefits.
SlimSkeeter
04-30-2010, 06:41 PM
BUMP (http://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/thoughts-from-an-abortion)... actually its just something written by someone who performs the procedure. Interesting read.
CrAnIuM
04-30-2010, 08:15 PM
BUMP (http://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/thoughts-from-an-abortion)... actually its just something written by someone who performs the procedure. Interesting read.
Indeed.
Her best line =
" We all know that anti-abortionists aren’t really “pro-life,” they are “pro-forced birth.” They make huge assumptions about who the women are who actually have abortions. They think that all the women who have abortions are just young flaky women who have no concern for the life of the embryo/fetus they are aborting. They couldn’t be more wrong."
EDIT:
Holy FUCK is that a man hating site or what ... jeeez.
Indeed.
Her best line =
" We all know that anti-abortionists aren’t really “pro-life,” they are “pro-forced birth.” They make huge assumptions about who the women are who actually have abortions. They think that all the women who have abortions are just young flaky women who have no concern for the life of the embryo/fetus they are aborting. They couldn’t be more wrong."
EDIT:
Holy FUCK is that a man hating site or what ... jeeez.
4nik8
04-30-2010, 08:17 PM
Part of me wants to say that the man should have every bit of the same say in it as the woman.... however I have to temper that with the notion that that only counts if they are in a serious and long term relationship.
If it was the result of a short term and perhaps sporadic relationship....then pretty much everything falls on the woman's shoulders. Now that also means that she has the choice to tell the man involved or not. Which sucks....
No, what SUCKS is she gets to make the decision and YOU have to pay the piper, literally, whether you want it or not.
I'm not going into the abortion issue much more than to say.. if she has the ability to "opt out of parenthood" by means of abortions, I (or any other may that's been trapped (broken rubbers, lies, bitches actually USING THE DISCARDED RUBBER TO GET PREGNANT, etc) should have an EQUAL right to opt out.
Gimme a piece of paper to sign and let the bitch be fully financially responsible for the kid I didn't want... OR... make the bitch carry the kid to term that I DO want.. then give it to me.
^^(over the top to make a point)^^
Sadly, the way most men find out and ex was pregnant/gave birth is by being served a court summons wanting part of your check.
If it was the result of a short term and perhaps sporadic relationship....then pretty much everything falls on the woman's shoulders. Now that also means that she has the choice to tell the man involved or not. Which sucks....
No, what SUCKS is she gets to make the decision and YOU have to pay the piper, literally, whether you want it or not.
I'm not going into the abortion issue much more than to say.. if she has the ability to "opt out of parenthood" by means of abortions, I (or any other may that's been trapped (broken rubbers, lies, bitches actually USING THE DISCARDED RUBBER TO GET PREGNANT, etc) should have an EQUAL right to opt out.
Gimme a piece of paper to sign and let the bitch be fully financially responsible for the kid I didn't want... OR... make the bitch carry the kid to term that I DO want.. then give it to me.
^^(over the top to make a point)^^
Sadly, the way most men find out and ex was pregnant/gave birth is by being served a court summons wanting part of your check.
SlimSkeeter
04-30-2010, 09:01 PM
Indeed.
Her best line =
" We all know that anti-abortionists aren’t really “pro-life,” they are “pro-forced birth.” They make huge assumptions about who the women are who actually have abortions. They think that all the women who have abortions are just young flaky women who have no concern for the life of the embryo/fetus they are aborting. They couldn’t be more wrong."
I thought that was a brilliant point, as well, given all the bombings and attacks on abortion clinics.
EDIT:
Holy FUCK is that a man hating site or what ... jeeez.
Didn't look at the rest, StumbledUpon this....wear a cup when perusing....
Her best line =
" We all know that anti-abortionists aren’t really “pro-life,” they are “pro-forced birth.” They make huge assumptions about who the women are who actually have abortions. They think that all the women who have abortions are just young flaky women who have no concern for the life of the embryo/fetus they are aborting. They couldn’t be more wrong."
I thought that was a brilliant point, as well, given all the bombings and attacks on abortion clinics.
EDIT:
Holy FUCK is that a man hating site or what ... jeeez.
Didn't look at the rest, StumbledUpon this....wear a cup when perusing....
LeeRain
08-15-2010, 09:23 AM
I am pro-choice. I do understand what all the pro-life people have to say about it but the fact of the matter is an unwanted pregnancy is a bad thing. The kid suffers worse then the parent could ever dream of.
I do agree that people should use precaution first and only turn to the abortion as the last measure. I like the idea better of adoption. Let the parent turn over the child to the hospital and not use the dumpster. But let's be real here and know not everyone on this planet is smart enough to think of what is best for the child.
I do agree that people should use precaution first and only turn to the abortion as the last measure. I like the idea better of adoption. Let the parent turn over the child to the hospital and not use the dumpster. But let's be real here and know not everyone on this planet is smart enough to think of what is best for the child.
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